Fix the Sniper: A formal request

[Lunatic]

Greetings!
Today I'll be talking about what is currently used as an extra-powerful shotgun.

For people that don't know, a sniper rifle is a rifle designed to shoot targets at very long distances. Often using high caliber bullets, this weapon is meant to kill whatever it hits, from as far away as you'd like. In SFD, we have a very nice bolt-action sniper rifle with a good scope that has a built-in laser sight, a must-have for this weapon. It is also the only gun to feature perfect accuracy! That's right, this gun has no weapon spread. If you point it to shoot at something, it will shoot it, no matter how far away you are. The laser helps with this.

The problems with it currently: It's too weak, and it has random crits. "But Lunatic, the sniper kills in three shots!" That's true! From full health, the sniper will always kill in three shots.

Regardless of whether or not you're landing critical hits.

The weapon has a high crit rate, and that's good, but I think what would benefit this weapon more, is a base damage nerf and a crit damage buff. From there, I propose to scrap the current random crit function and instead add a guaranteed crit system similar to how the shotgun has a guaranteed crit. (Preferably, all weapons should have a guaranteed crit system, but I'm not here for that today.)

The sniper rifle should have a guaranteed crit after it's projectile has traveled a certain distance. If the bullet does not travel far enough before hitting someone, it should deal 25 damage, as much as a normal magnum shot. However, if it lands the guaranteed crit after enough distance, it should deal at LEAST 50 damage. If I crit someone twice with the weapon, they shouldn't survive without grabbing health inbetween shots. Currently, sniper crits deal 45, and they're random so you never know if your patience and accuracy is going to pay off, or if your target is going to get away to keep being a thorn in your side. This change would also benefit the weapon because using it as an extra-powerful shotgun wouldn't be as effective as sitting far away and picking off opponents.

This change would also give the weapon a counter: CQC. The sniper user wouldn't be able to easily mow down the opposition if they closed in because it would be less effective at stopping CQC assaults, while still maintaining that it's a powerful weapon in both CQC and especially at long distance. It's a weapon that should reward careful and concise shooting.

[Splinter]

I'd definitely like to have a sniper with 100% critical chance (and crits that do 50 damage). I like your ideas, I have some too, to make the sniper better in long range and worse in close range:
-The laser sight is completely invisible to other players. Sometimes seeing the laser helps you dodge the bullets.
-Slightly increase the reload action between one shot and the other. So, if you miss in close range, you're in a tight spot.

[Zyfex]

but how far is far enough? enough distance to where a shotgun wouldn't crit ??? (no laser sight because thats just silly)

also, splinter's suggestion on longer cooldown between shots helps differentiate it from the shotguns

[Doom Guy]

Maybe a charge up for a shot? Just an idea.

[KliPeH]

Today I'll be talking about what is currently used as an extra-powerful shotgun.

When I think "shotgun", I think "spray & pray". So far I'm agreeing with all these suggestions, but I'm surprised no one suggested to eliminate the feature that would discourage people to use the sniper as a CQC weapon the most: hipfiring. The most common form of spray & pray, also used a lot when armed with a shotgun. I recall some FPS game disallowing the use of a sniper without ADS, but how would it affect gameplay in SFD?

• Make snipers more predictable in CQC - more so than a sniper turning around and firing from the hip at random. If you see a sniper aiming his gun at you you will probably be able to predict and avoid the shot more easily (dive/roll/block/move).
• Snipers risk getting disarmed - if they wish to use this powerful weapon to finish an enemy off in CQC, they'll have to work for it. No more cheesy spraying, they'd have to make sure they're far enough/the enemy is distracted so they don't lose the weapon while lining their shot up.
• More control over its difficulty of use - want to simply make the sniper a powerful shotgun? Allow hipfire/instant firing. Want to force a more careful approach, but allow it to be used in CQC still? Force ADS and possibly aiming for at least 1 second before firing. Don't want the sniper to be used in CQC at all? Force ADS, make the player wait a few seconds/charge up their shot before they're allowed to fire.

[Lunatic]

While I like what you're saying, I think those ideas would clash with what SFD currently feels like. I'd enjoy being forced to aim before the weapon could be fired, but I think taking away it's CQC use would be too much. I'd rather discourage CQC/encourage long-range sniping than just take away an option. I don't want the weapon nerfed - I want it balanced. By lowering the reward for close range attacks and increasing the reward for long range attacks, I'm giving a larger incentive to use the weapon as an actual sniper instead of giving the player a high damage-per-shot shotgun.

[Gunter]

I'd definitely like to have a sniper with 100% critical chance (and crits that do 50 damage). I like your ideas, I have some too, to make the sniper better in long range and worse in close range:
-The laser sight is completely invisible to other players. Sometimes seeing the laser helps you dodge the bullets.
-Slightly increase the reload action between one shot and the other. So, if you miss in close range, you're in a tight spot.

i don't think the idea of other players cannot see the laser is a good idea.
why?:cause it's a laser '-',it's not invisible.

I think that there should be added a new button for removing the laser,and it would work with ammunation too,with that button we should be able to throw ammunation to our friends,i think it would be a good idea since there's going to be more kinds of ammo in the game.

[Gurt]

SFD uses a simple firing system that works the same for all weapons (and will work the same for all weapons). Firing from the hip is a very valid tactic which allows you to move (run and gun if you wish) but also limits you to the horizontal plane. Starting to aim and move your aim and firing takes time. If you're skilled and precise you get rewarded for shooting fast even at tricky angels. Nothing wrong with this and nothing we will change.

Hjarpe and I discussed very early if we should decrease the sniper's damage and/or crit chance for the first initial distance for the bullet just because of the CQC type of gameplay. We concluded that it's more predictable and fair if the sniper's damage and crit remain the same no matter what.

Keep in mind that SFD isn't supposed to be about fair and competitive gameplay like other shooters. One weapon vs another weapon doesn't have to be fair or balanced either.

[Lunatic]

I'm not asking you to make it fair, I'm asking you to make your sniper rifle less of a power rifle and more of an actual sniper rifle. As it is now, it's effective both up close and far away, so I see more people treating it like a shotgun than an actual sniper. I've only been sniped at ONCE. I've had MANY people rush me down and use it like a power shotgun. This is fine as a tactic but it makes me feel like the sniper rifle needs work to reward the player for using it at a distance more as opposed to just shooting with it. If you wanted a high damage-per-shot weapon, why not just stop with the magnum and shotguns? This weapon is redundant.

And how is it fair/predictable that there's a crit CHANCE? It's completely random, and while the crit rate might be large, it's still possible for the weapon to not crit. The damage values are near arbitrary if you're fighting someone with full health, since it's still going to be three shots no matter what, and 10 damage isn't a big difference between crits. All of the features listed in the OP move towards making the weapon unique yet maintaining that it's a power weapon, but not just a "I have this weapon and I win" (Like most other power weapons) but a weapon that demands more of the user.

I implore you, reconsider the current sniper rifle. It's not that it would make the game more balanced, it's that it would make the weapon perform it's role correctly instead of just being a stronger magnum. I understand we aren't dealing with fair, competitive gameplay, but I'm not asking you to balance the weapon, I'm asking for it to do the job associated with being a weapon of it's class.

[Splinter]

Yeah, I think this is more of a "weapon variety" request rather than a balancing request. I definitely have fun when I make a succesful strategical option, like taking an assault rifle over a bazooka to finish off someone with low health (the guy could ride the rocket and kill me!). I think the suggestion of a guaranteed critical at a greater distance is worth considering.

[Lunatic]

Almost 10 likes for the Sniper changes! Looks like people really favor my idea. Plenty of likes across this thread for people agreeing as well. Hopefully we see a new and improved sniper rifle soon!

[TheOriginalCj]

I agree with these fixes, they make the sniper rifle not only more suited for its purpose and overall just great.

I think crits are just disappointing in general, they're so rare on semi-autos it's no real advantage to pick up a carbine or a pistol. I feel like crit rate needs to rise a little bit. Perhaps a distance equation can take effect for some weapons in order to better make weapons more diverse and optimal for their ideal ranges.

ex.
The AR has an increasing crit over mid range, then the crits drop off dramatically.
The Carbine has a similar model to the AR, but crits will only drop off slightly, not dramatically.

This mechanic is similar to most first person shooters, except it's usually for damage.

[Lunatic]

I support fixed crit requirements for all weapons, as that would give all weapons more unique flavor and give the player something to be looking for when it comes to nailing some good crits (Pistol crits airborne players? I better shoot when people jump! This example is drastic but you get the idea).

Not all weapons need a fixed crit requirement but I'd say the sniper should have one.

[Elite Hunter]

I think the sniper is fine as it is. Why would there be any reason to change a rare gun drop. The current guns are fine the way they are man, we should focus on submitting ideas for new weapons instead of tweaking old ones.

[TheOriginalCj]

I think the sniper is fine as it is. Why would there be any reason to change a rare gun drop. The current guns are fine the way they are man, we should focus on submitting ideas for new weapons instead of tweaking old ones.

The Sniper Rifle isn't really a sniper rifle, or atleast nobody really uses it that way. It's a single bullet shotgun that *sometimes* crits. Another fix he proposed required that you could only aim the sniper rifle, be glad he didn't mention it in this one as well.

For a weapon with huge power potential, it certainly is lacking in that aspect.

[Lunatic]

It deals random damage, 35 or 45, depending on crits. Always takes three hits to kill from full health. Crits are random and thus there's little incentive to use it from far away when an opponent can sit in cover all day and lock you in a stalemate. In fact, since it's difficult to line up a proper shot for a sniper since you're conserving ammo, an armed opponent can harass you with rapid fire weapons or others in general to make it difficult to camp with low health. If you try to adjust your spot for a better angle they can also deal moderate damage.

Getting up close with the weapon allows you to basically just shotgun with it instead of using it as a sniper rifle. Crits are randomized so you'll still be doing good damage regardless, and since long-range is more difficult to pull off thanks to how easy it is to stalemate with guns, up close guarantees your opponents have to be mindful and moving to keep you away or to make you waste ammo. Sniper is too effective at CQC as a weapon designed for long range, and it's too ineffective at long range thanks to it's shortcomings of being stalemated easily.

Giving the sniper a fixed crit requirement of being forced to travel a distance before it starts to crit, guarantees the weapon isn't such a gamechanger in CQC. Giving it a larger damage at range (50) allows it to do it's job effectively and efficiently, increasing it's potential damage max from 270 to 300 - 3 kills max instead of 2, where most other power weapons can chew through half a server or huge chunks of life for many players. This makes it a true sniper, not a high-power shotgun and magnum copy, and it makes it a proper power weapon with the potential to wreak serious havoc. It'll be more important than ever to take serious cover and avoid a sniper. I mean, it still is, but nobody has any incentive for sniping right now when it's more effective for CQC.

That's why weapon tweaks are important and new weapons aren't what this game needs. I mean, sure, new weapons are great, but quantity vs quality. We have decent quantity and I'm sure we'll get more later, but quality is a much better goal (1000 shit weapons that are the same vs 20 amazing unique weapons).

[Hjarpe]

With the current set of maps there's rarely occasion to snipe long distances, it's true. But if I HAD to shoot someone who was at the other end of the map, the sniper is the only weapon that can do it every time. Don't forget that its biggest strength is supposed to be its accuracy, which is completely unmatched.

Just because we don't give the sniper bullets arbitrary gamey rules, it doesn't mean it's 'broken'. If we were to give the projectile different stats depending on how long it has traveled (which I don't think we need to), I would want a visual clue as to what's happening, because it's an abstract concept that would otherwise have to be tutorialized. Maybe the sniper bullet could start out slower and then accelerate, so its damage and crit chance bonus matches its speed bonus.

[Wozenbelt]

Just because we don't give the sniper bullets arbitrary gamey rules, it doesn't mean it's 'broken'. If we were to give the projectile different stats depending on how long it has traveled (which I don't think we need to), I would want a visual clue as to what's happening, because it's an abstract concept that would otherwise have to be tutorialized. Maybe the sniper bullet could start out slower and then accelerate, so its damage and crit chance bonus matches its speed bonus.

I feel like an explicit visual cue would be fine, but I wanted to bring up that the pump-action or the sawed-off shotgun has guaranteed crits that aren't tutorialized. You know that you will get knocked down because of how close they are to you. Similarly, a player might realize that the sniper rifle always knocks them down from a certain distance.
If you aren't willing to give the sniper bullet unique properties that fit its purpose, then what solution do you propose for the problem? Is it that you don't find that there is a problem at all?

[Lunatic]

I'm not saying the sniper isn't a power weapon, and I didn't say it's broken (though I guess "fix the sniper" says that for me, doesn't it), it's just that it's random. I find random crits to be more arbitrary than a fixed critical requirement that gives me an incentive to actually use the weapon in a specific way. There's a reason people don't generally use a shotgun in an attempt to shoot someone across the map.

The accuracy is correct - it's the only weapon I could legitimately hit someone from cross-map. Does it bother you though that it's used as a shotgun more often? Why wouldn't you want to give an incentive to use a sniper rifle as an actual sniper? I'm pretty serious on arguing my case but I'll drop it if I get a good reason.

[Hjarpe]

The sniper rifle fullfils its role. I use it to snipe. That it's also powerful in close quarters - well, I can't seem to get bothered about it.

I also don't mind the random crits, for me it's part of the fun. Shotgun crits happen if most of the projectiles hit you at the same time -- so not the same thing, but I see your point.