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Knife nerf/throw nerf

Give us your input on how we may improve the game in future versions.
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Alexbra25
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Knife nerf/throw nerf

Post by Alexbra25 » Tue Mar 13, 2018 11:27 pm

I think axe, katana, machete and specially knife throws should be nerfed in terms of damage. You can't dodge throws by rolling or diving and throwing weapons go through portals. Besides, it's too easy to hit a throw: all you have to do is stand next to the enemy and pretend you're gonna throw something, holding A in throw mode. Then you just wait for them to block and throw.

Knifes are the most powerful of those, because the throwing speed and range is so huge. Imagine a guy with 70 health and one with 1 health and a knife. The guy with a knife pretends to throw, the guy blocks, then he throws...35 damage. He picks up the knife again and does the same thing and wins. I think 35 damage in one knife throw is too much, even more considering how easy it is to hit one.

I don't know how much damage they should do, but I think that the current damages are way too high.
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Post by Splinter » Tue Mar 13, 2018 11:35 pm

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Post by Pricey » Tue Mar 13, 2018 11:56 pm

I think the current knife damage is fine, considering all metal melee weapons do a base of 30 and the knife's purpose (in my opinion) is to be a weapon dedicated to throwing.
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Post by Alexbra25 » Wed Mar 14, 2018 12:28 am

Pricey wrote:
Tue Mar 13, 2018 11:56 pm
I think the current knife damage is fine, considering all metal melee weapons do a base of 30 and the knife's purpose (in my opinion) is to be a weapon dedicated to throwing.
knife is also a pretty common weapon, I checked on the map editor and its spawn rate is the same as a pipe wrench or baton, for example. Imagine if pipe wrenches did 35 damage on throwing mode. But I don't think the knife's spawn rate should be changed, I just think it does too much damage.
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Post by MOOADAM » Wed Mar 14, 2018 3:30 am

i think it shouldn't be nerfed, there has to be some way for a critically damaged player to make a comeback aside from throwing the enemy off a ledge or health hunting.
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Post by mgtr14 » Wed Mar 14, 2018 11:29 am

Pricey wrote:
Tue Mar 13, 2018 11:56 pm
I think the current knife damage is fine, considering all metal melee weapons do a base of 30 and the knife's purpose (in my opinion) is to be a weapon dedicated to throwing.
I don't think that the damage should be justified by how much other weapons do, especially if it's also too much.
A base damage of 30 with thrown metal melee weapons is way too much, we only have 100 HP. Get hit by a thrown metal melee weapon 4 times, and you're dead. 3 would be enough to finish you off with pretty much a shot from almost any weapon.
I do agree that the knife is most likely intended for throwing, and that's fine by me. But this much damage is just insane, and considering how bad the counter to throwing is (Blocks can be easily broken thereafter with a grab), the knife is really OP.

If you wanna be extra brutal in melee, say you predict that your opponent will block after you hit him, you can swing, then switch to throwing mode while he's blocking and throw thereafter. So if that's done with a knife, that's 47 damage. Worse, you will even be able to follow up with a grab, and that would be + 17 damage. So 64 damage in total if you do it right. If I would learn how to completely mix in throwing with melee and grabs, I could most likely deal way too much damage already from just a couple of actions. This could be way worse with the katana, if you land more hits before or after. Your opponent wouldn't even be able to take your melee weapon, due to the knockback of the grab punch/throw.

Even if you only had an opportunity to throw your weapon, I bet it can be really easy if you get close enough, noone can outrun the knife, just bait a block and throw thereafter. Even if alot of people have started to atleast try to avoid blocking, we still get caught out alot.
MOOADAM wrote:
Wed Mar 14, 2018 3:30 am
i think it shouldn't be nerfed, there has to be some way for a critically damaged player to make a comeback aside from throwing the enemy off a ledge or health hunting.
I really disagree with people who think that this is fine because it gives low HP players a chance. These moves aren't restricted to anyone with less than 20 HP, this can easily be done against anyone who also has low hp, and you would only need to throw a knife then. Low HP gives anyone in general a lower chance to survive, trying to compensate that by adding moves/weapons that deal way too much damage (But that anyone can use anyways) is not going to work.
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Post by Sree » Wed Mar 14, 2018 12:37 pm

I think the damage dealt by a knife should depend on how far the knife is being thrown from. It should be only do it's max 35 damage from a certain distance where catching the knife would be easy and can't be tricked. Knife only becomes a bit OP when it comes to close quarters, It's projectile speed when thrown and how easily players can be manipulated to block makes it way too powerful in close range. other metal weapons like axe or sword is far easier to catch in close combat compared to knife because they aren't as fast as knife when thrown. I think knife should only do 20 damage in close range.

Or maybe, Knifes or thrown melee weapons shouldn't knock/stun a player in close range. that way you can at least pick up the thrown weapon before the enemy does and use it against him.
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Post by Motto73 » Thu Mar 15, 2018 6:05 am

The damage of a thrown item (or missile, any item that can knock you) depends highly on its speed. Max values are concrete though, you can find them in weapons.sfdx (Superfighters Deluxe(Installation folder)\Content\Data\Weapons\).
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Post by Noble » Thu Mar 15, 2018 3:02 pm

Sree wrote:
Wed Mar 14, 2018 12:37 pm
I think the damage dealt by a knife should depend on how far the knife is being thrown from. It should be only do it's max 35 damage from a certain distance where catching the knife would be easy and can't be tricked.
Now that's a good idea, thrown items shouldn't inflict high damage when used close to the opponent, they aren't even made for this I think, or knifes and sharp weapons specifically, cause there are thrown items with low range. Making it to deal higher damage in far distances is more convenient.
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Post by Shark » Thu Mar 15, 2018 7:33 pm

Throw is basically this
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Post by MOOADAM » Thu Mar 15, 2018 8:38 pm

Shark wrote:
Thu Mar 15, 2018 7:33 pm
Throw is basically this
Image
where are yawl drawing this stuff?
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