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Grab buff + rework

Give us your input on how we may improve the game in future versions.
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Banisher
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Grab buff + rework

Post by Banisher » Wed Dec 27, 2017 9:48 pm

Now, while looking through these forums, I saw a topic called "grab nerf". Well, I have my own spin on it!

The "grab buff"

I've noticed that sometimes whilst fighting an opponent, I try to sneak in a grab to give myself some breathing space.

But, it seems as if the grab won't initiate after being punched or while being punched.

So, my idea is to make grab unaffected by hit stun. That way, right after being hit, you can grab them.

To balance it out, I think that lowering the damage caused by the grab would be nice.

In the end, this'll make the grab feel less clumsy.

Well, yeah. Comment anymore ideas for reworking in the comment section below.
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Sree
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Post by Sree » Thu Dec 28, 2017 7:38 am

Yes, Grabs should be an instant kill move as well
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KliPeH
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Post by KliPeH » Thu Dec 28, 2017 12:40 pm

Sree wrote:
Thu Dec 28, 2017 7:38 am
Yes, Grabs should be an instant kill move as well
I too think grabs should be faster.

Initially I was surprised by the huge delay of the attack after initiating it; I assumed it would be as fast as a punch, otherwise this slow a move wouldn't fare well against swings from fists or other melee weapons. I was partially right - if you stand face to face with an opponent and initiate a grab while they punch you're going to suffer. The grab was designed to be a counter move to blocking rather than... a move on its own. You can do alone with punches and kicks, but not with grabs, as the first instinct of (most) players when getting engaged is to punch. Keep punching and the grab will never connect with the opponent. It's simply too slow to be effective on its own, at least without being combo'd into.

With that said, speeding it up would mean nuking the damage the grab punch does or the distance of the judo throw which I'm not keen on either since these two (the throw more so than the punch) are what render this move so useful in the first place. I'd generally like to speed all the moves up so they aren't telegraphed as easily. Set the game's speed to x1.3 and that's my vision of a good melee system.
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Post by Sree » Thu Dec 28, 2017 2:32 pm

How is it really a good melee system when everything is fast and you can't predict what's gonna happen next and timingly use the perfect counter skilfully. This would just give way to spamming and melee would become much worse. The only thing special about melee in sfd is you can anticipate and make a counter move. blocks always had it's counters, there were (still are) lots of counters to blocks which required timing and skill, which really made melee special until there was a move called grab which you can just spam and still get a kill sometimes. a competent player can still counter a block without grabbing in lots of ways. The players aren't really complaining because grabs are op, they are actually complaining because grabs are too easy to perform. A Player can only grab you if you are being overly defensive? That's wrong, I can even get grabbed when you are playing offensively. you can grab a person who is just spamming the punch button if you time the grab properly. I expected the grab to be a unique move which is much more difficult to perform and not as an easy counter to blocks which has hell lots of counters already.

It's easy to say " just punch/kick a player when he is trying to grab " but things happen so fast in a game already, you can't anticipate if a player is gonna grab you or punch you, whether you should punch or block to counter and this is where skill gets out and luck gets into the way. In a "melee" battle between 2 competent sfd players, Punching has a weak counter which is blocking, but blocking has too many counters including grab which can even kill you easily sometimes.
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