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Grab nerf

Give us your input on how we may improve the game in future versions.
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Rick Sanchez
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Grab nerf

Post by Rick Sanchez » Tue Dec 26, 2017 9:45 pm

Lets cut the crap, i know Grab will never be removed which is a damn shame, so Atleast impliment somekind of nerf to it, Like nerf the damage Done with The grab Punch which is Ridiculously overpowered, and maybe even make some sort of limit to how many times you can grab or something in that direction. Or just remove it completely which would be wonderful too :D but anyway yes That's my opinion on The good ol' Ez way out mechanic.

EDIT: crap i almost forgot to mention, Fix the hitbox on it too cuz its garbage atm :D
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Post by Gurt » Tue Dec 26, 2017 11:03 pm

You will need to provide more details than "The grab Punch which is Ridiculously overpowered" and "Fix the hitbox on it too cuz its garbage atm" because we don't see any problem with the grab mechanic. But you seem to be self aware with the "...i know Grab will never be removed which is a damn shame" statement. :)
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Post by Tom Th3 Assasin » Tue Dec 26, 2017 11:23 pm

''Bazooka is too op..pls remove it''

when grab is such ''overpowered''then why dont use it?There are many to counter it,punch,kick,or throw weapon etc.

And another reason why people dislike grab.The ''Judo throw'' or just throwing off cliffs.When your facing a grabber at an edge,why did you slacked?
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Post by Rick Sanchez » Wed Dec 27, 2017 12:01 am

Gurt wrote:
Tue Dec 26, 2017 11:03 pm
You will need to provide more details than "The grab Punch which is Ridiculously overpowered" and "Fix the hitbox on it too cuz its garbage atm" because we don't see any problem with the grab mechanic. But you seem to be self aware with the "...i know Grab will never be removed which is a damn shame" statement. :)
It takes a fugton of Health thats why. Atleast reduce the Amount of Hp it takes. Dont take this so seriously, Gurt. This is the "Ideas and Suggestions" Section :)

and besides the game is getting so competitive these days grab just gets in the way. But maybe its not meant to be Competitive, maybe it just needs to be for goofs idk whatever im starting to care about grab being broken less and less while writing this tbh.
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Post by Sree » Wed Dec 27, 2017 12:04 pm

I agree that grab + hit does way too much damage, I have nothing against grabs, it's the perfect counter to blocks but grab's counter isn't much rewarding. I know that you can just punch someone while he is trying to grab you, but it's not really that rewarding, but at the same time if that guy grabbed you, it's much more rewarding for him because he can deal 2 times damage of a punch or throw you away.

Maybe you should implement something like... If a guy is punched while he is trying to grab, he will take 1.5x usual damage. this makes sense and countering grabs become much more rewarding. Or at least some way to get out of grabs.
Tom Th3 Assasin wrote:
Tue Dec 26, 2017 11:23 pm
''Bazooka is too op..pls remove it''

when grab is such ''overpowered''then why dont use it?There are many to counter it,punch,kick,or throw weapon etc.

And another reason why people dislike grab.The ''Judo throw'' or just throwing off cliffs.When your facing a grabber at an edge,why did you slacked?
Because there are people who have a life, who play for fun and not take the game serious enough to use overpowered ways of winning a game like camping in certain maps like crates to get 100 wins 0 loss etc.
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Post by Gurt » Wed Dec 27, 2017 1:09 pm

This is a lengthy thread about the grab mechanic viewtopic.php?f=19&t=556. In short: Grab is one way to counter defensive melee behavior. If you're aggressively offensive in your melee you can't get grabbed because you leave no window of opportunity to get grabbed. If you get grabbed a lot then perhaps you're too defensive in melee.

We don't think the damage is "Ridiculously overpowered".
Gurt wrote:Grab+attack deal the same damage as two punches. Your DPS is potentially greater if you just keep on punching as you can chain damaging abilities faster together and dealing more damage.
So grab+attack is basically just a short burst of damage. If you want more DPS output then keep chaining attacks. If your opponent starts to block then do a grab and keep attacking. It's all very situational as always. If you got grabbed from the start then you should expect to get hurt in one way or another - your opponent managed to grab you after all.
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Post by KliPeH » Wed Dec 27, 2017 1:43 pm

If anything, there was that button-mashy mechanic brought up a couple times, where if you got grabbed you could press the attack/kick button and damage your opponent as long as they were holding you. I'd propose something like that as well. Have these attacks be faster than regular melee attacks on foot, but have them do less damage. Succeed in a, say, 4-attack streak, and you get to break free. This forces the person who grabbed you to figure out what to do with you faster (sometimes grabbing is an automatic response after which the person still needs to analyze their surroundings and form a plan), and also evens the damage dealt to both fighters out somewhat. Now getting grabbed isn't a straight-up loss situation, you can do some chip damage too and potentially break free unharmed.

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Post by Rick Sanchez » Wed Dec 27, 2017 2:16 pm

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Post by Gurt » Wed Dec 27, 2017 2:33 pm

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While it's true that if anyone want to give feedback in hopes of changing something it must be done right.
Saying "Fix the hitbox on it too cuz its garbage atm" will do no good other than perhaps a reply from us if you can provide some more detailed information about why that is the case.
In the end it's Rick Sanchez's opinion that the hitbox is garbage. But if he can't convince us, the developers, why it should be changed and how it should be changed for the better for the overall gameplay experience then it will not be changed. This goes for all features in the game.
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Post by Rick Sanchez » Wed Dec 27, 2017 2:38 pm

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What about the Grab + punch? its apparent it takes so much hp for a punch. Ye maybe i approached this the wrong way.
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Post by Sree » Wed Dec 27, 2017 7:01 pm

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Post by hyper copter » Thu Dec 28, 2017 4:08 am

Gurt wrote:
Tue Dec 26, 2017 11:03 pm
we don't see any problem with the grab mechanic.
Example:

Let's compare normal punch with grab punch..

Normal:(It's an example I dunno exactly)
deals like 5-7.5-10 damage
Grab:deals like 15-20-25

I agree that grab punch is too op but that doesn't mean it should be removed, And after thinking of it, I see grab punch is the only way you can attack when they can't block/dodge/attack back/attack first. so it shouldn't deal that much damage, it should be at least reduced as it's a good chance.

hmm wait a second (Big Smoke's OOOOOOOOHHHHHH) does the grab punch fuse the power of 3 normal punches?

I am stupid

But it still shouldn't deal the damage of 3 punches
as like I said it's the only chance to attack when they can't BLA/BLA/BLA/BLA

So it MUST Be reduced to at least... at LEAST l the damages of 2 punches... AT LEAST...Thìs is what I think...
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Post by Hjarpe » Thu Dec 28, 2017 12:27 pm

The grab-punch damage may seem like a lot, but it's pretty carefully tuned. The grab is a situational move, in fact it is only useful when the enemy is incapacitated or playing defensively (blocking a lot). In a normal fight it requires timing to pull off, and the high damage is your reward for succeeding.

The whole point of the grab was to make the melee move along faster. It does so by 1) offering a way of doing a massive burst of damage which can turn the tide of the fight or end it outright and 2) incentivizing offensive play so the grab doesn't happen to you.

The in-universe reason for the high damage, at least in my imagination, is that the person receiving the punch is defenseless. It's a bit like a finishing move. Like in the movies, where the hero or villain charges up the mighty punch that knocks their enemy out.

If anything, we might need ideas on how to make these ideas more obvious in-game using visuals or sound effects. We're open to suggestions, because the mechanic truly works as intended but a lot of people (or at least a vocal minority) don't seem to get what we were going for.
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Post by Rick Sanchez » Thu Dec 28, 2017 5:30 pm

Hjarpe wrote:
Thu Dec 28, 2017 12:27 pm
The grab-punch damage may seem like a lot, but it's pretty carefully tuned. The grab is a situational move, in fact it is only useful when the enemy is incapacitated or playing defensively (blocking a lot). In a normal fight it requires timing to pull off, and the high damage is your reward for succeeding.

The whole point of the grab was to make the melee move along faster. It does so by 1) offering a way of doing a massive burst of damage which can turn the tide of the fight or end it outright and 2) incentivizing offensive play so the grab doesn't happen to you.

The in-universe reason for the high damage, at least in my imagination, is that the person receiving the punch is defenseless. It's a bit like a finishing move. Like in the movies, where the hero or villain charges up the mighty punch that knocks their enemy out.

If anything, we might need ideas on how to make these ideas more obvious in-game using visuals or sound effects. We're open to suggestions, because the mechanic truly works as intended but a lot of people (or at least a vocal minority) don't seem to get what we were going for.
Hmm, This gave me a new perspective.
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