Remove the 10% chance to be hit

[Gurt]

inflict too much damage in short time anymore.

I basically meant using exploits/bugs to do so.

- The ability to instantly slam an opponent after you dive at them and cancel your roll.

Jumping to cancel a roll is valid and it's valid to punch as you jump. While in the air you can't dodge bullets and depending on where you land you might enter the full kneel. So it has its drawbacks. By design!

- The ability to stunlock an opponent because going off an object/platform removes slam/kick cooldown.

What do you mean? I can't understand this one. Is this a bug with the cooldown system in some way?

- The ability to combo walldiving and slamming so fast the opponent can't react until you deplete your stamina.

You could bring this up as a topic here on the forum. I don't think it has been mentioned in this new forum yet. Maybe someone has an idea how to prevent walldiving from being abused. We still don't know how to solve this. Each time Hjarpe and I discuss this we can't agree on one final solution to this problem without negatively affecting other aspects of the game. Walldiving is just a name on a series of combinations of moves and situations you exploit so it's hard to define up some rules to solve this without "nerfing melee" again. As we don't see this being exploited when WE play the game we assume this isn't as effective as people claim it to be or we just never see it being abused so we kinda prioritize this very low - especially since there's no topic about it.

- I don't see why equipping a weapon takes a second or two but sheathing any weapon away and switching to fists is instant.

You could bring this up as a topic here on the forum explaining why you think it's a problem and any potential ideas how to solve whatever problem there is. Today this is by design to avoid people drawing their weapons mid-melee shooting someone between punches with a bazooka.

- Diving fighter's hitbox being so large stopping dives doesn't require your punch to connect with the opponent's sprite.

As long as you're holding your fist/weapon out in front of you and your opponent dives into your fist/weapon the diving player will fall. By design! It's deadly to dive into someone ready to punch you in the face.

The tutorial in the future will change once we get proper bots. Now it's a very basic fundamental (and kinda boring) tutorial to get into the controls a bit faster. But we will still only learn the basics like how you run, jump, punch, shoot and climb. It's up to the user to figure out the best mix of the moves and combinations in each situation they encounter in the game.

[Hjarpe]

The ability to stunlock an opponent because going off an object/platform removes slam/kick cooldown.

I'm a bit confused how this would be used to stunlock someone? Stunlocking to me means several overlapping stuns in a row, and when does walking off an object or dropping through a platform let you do that?

Generally, being able to get more hits in by using the environment is not what I consider an exploit. For me that falls on the side of "using knowledge of the game to play better" rather than "exploiting a bug". But there may be situations where it falls on the other side, but I haven't encountered them myself.

The ability to combo walldiving and slamming so fast the opponent can't react until you deplete your stamina.

Has a video of this been posted in the Problems and Bugs section? I don't think I've ever seen it in action.

[Del Poncho]

While I'd like to see this game become more competitive (Probably because I have this wet dream of seeing the game become some sort of Esport),I think that the small random things like this should stay.
You should not consider the 10% chance as a bonus to the guy spray n' praying,but as a malus to the guy running towards him. It's something you have to put into the equation to get to that win. If you have 1hp left,and your enemy as a weapon capable to spray at least 10 shots,you should consider finding another way to kill him.
When you have a full hp,or something like that,it's very rare to get killed by that 10% armed with a sniper rifle,and if it doesnt kill you,it's just suggesting you to find a good cover,or try the all in. The fight isnt over as long as I have 1hp and a list of terrible plans.


One thing I'm with you,is the progressive spawn chances for better weapons. While it's sometimes fun to get that moment that makes you go "Bullshit." when the guy that spawned 3 meters from you gets a bazooka and gibs you to death with it,after a while it may get old. With a progressive spawn,instead, players would have the time to fight for the best spawn locations,still giving the game the randomness that makes us love SFD,but also giving it that sense of tactic that makes you feel victorious,and not just lucky to be in the right spot,in the right moment.

[...]Making a "competetive mode" would split the community in a big way, and that's the last thing we want.[...]

To me,the best thing that can be done to SFD,is to have some sort of system that,like in many other games,ranks players. After that,it's up to the host to decide wether or not put a level requirement/level cap in his server.
Maybe I just want to play with those 4 guys I've known for the past 2 years and I put a high level reqirement on my server.
Maybe I want to play with everyone and I dont put a level requirement,so that everybody is welcome.
Maybe I want to create a server for my newbie friends and create a server with a level cap so that me,my friends and everybody that is new to the game can join.
Obviously something like this would have to be a bit more refined than these 5 lines of text.

[Lunatic]

Except these mechanics are in fact by design. Doing an air attack or kick has landing cooldowns unless your character isn't moving that fast. The speed your character needs to reach is just a little more than the speed you'd get from falling off an object, like a crate or barrel. Therefore, I can kick while on a crate, fall off said crate, land with an air attack (you couldn't stop me from using it, nor could you block it) to stun you again, then get another free hit. I can also use a falling kick to push you off a ledge from a respectable distance away.

Player hurtboxes are incredibly disjointed for their getup animations, and also their ground animations iirc. Same goes for their landing crouch animation. This explains why bullets will make blood effects when impacting the air above fighters' heads, dealing damage despite obviously not touching the player's sprite. This is also why you can do an instant jump attack out of a dive to hit a prone/getting-up player, scoring free damage off of a tackle, something incredibly easy to do. This is risky if you don't kill in that attack, however, as the following frame advantage the hit player has is immense - if they have a gun, you're going to eat lead. Unless you land on a crate above where you started the jump, of course!

Walldive -> falling air attack -> walldive etc is awfully broken and OP. I do believe something was said about it before; the options to prevent this are pretty difficult to address. It's been possible for a very long time but it was actually used for the first time against me just today - I was surprised, a little frustrated that it actually worked, but overall impressed at how broken yet knowledgeable my opponent was. The best way to fix this is to give players a better way to get out of a tackle or dodge/escape them. Tackling players is incredibly easy, dives a frame 1 actions with frame 1 grabs. I'm still rather iffy on how you implemented a dive counter: the lingering hitbox on melee attacks is enormous, to the point where you can spam attack when you see someone approach, and they won't be able to dive you because they can't get through the wall of hitboxes. Dives are still an issue and I don't know the best way to balance them. Players just don't have any reasonable tools up close to deal with dives. Perhaps rework kicks to be the big dive-stoppers instead of regular melee attacks? I don't know, being able to throw out a kick to stop a dive seems somewhat silly but it's faster than attacks and currently doesn't have much actual melee usage. On top of that, regular melee attacks are too slow and their huge, lingering hitbox feels somewhat jank, though I'm honestly glad measures were taken to fix the issue.

Sheathing weapons instantly is a big deal because that way players can be attacked by melee combat and be able to instantly swap over to their weakest melee defense. Obviously, having a weapon out would be the preferred method of defending oneself, but if you need to block NOW, then being able to get those fists out is all that matters. Could make it so that sheathing could be an actually timed action, but I still feel like it would slow the game down too much.

Diving is just wonky lmao.

Uh, I'd like to point something important out, Gurt:

Today this is by design to avoid people drawing their weapons mid-melee shooting someone between punches with a bazooka.

This is quite possible. I don't think it's possible with fists since they go a little faster (though I also think I've seen it happen?). Melee weapons swing slow enough between each hit that there's a tight window to actually shoot the melee user between hits. If you just spam the shoot button while someone is spamming melee, you can actually shoot someone between hits. Granted, the window is incredibly tight, but it's still available. Testing with Zyfex has shown that a shotgun user can basically combo-break without blocking or dropping to melee. Luckily, this window is incredibly tight, but it explains why gunshots can happen between melee hits, and it's kinda broken. I'd recommend either adding just a slight bit more speed to melee, or making guns just a slight bit slower. I'd rather see the melee speed increase, obviously (^:

EDIT: Legit just spammed this message through like a dunkass. Was mostly referring to KliPeH's post when I made this comment.

[Gurt]

This topic is going off topic. IF you want to address certain issues please create separate topics for them.

Shooting between melee is one thing, drawing your weapon is another. Now you can't between the same punches both draw and shoot your weapon which was what I was referring too. There will always be a slight window where you can time your shots I guess but if you don't time it well you risk getting disarmed.

See this for melee hitboxes if you missed it: viewtopic.php?f=20&t=36

[KliPeH]

- The ability to instantly slam an opponent after you dive at them and cancel your roll.

Jumping to cancel a roll is valid and it's valid to punch as you jump. While in the air you can't dodge bullets and depending on where you land you might enter the full kneel. So it has its drawbacks. By design!

I don't see how a move which literally cannot be countered when used is "valid". It's minor damage, yes, but it's damage that can kill you nonetheless. If you're down to 1 HP and you get dived into you are guaranteed to get killed if this move is used on you, without you being able to respond. I would say that creating something that is not counterable and is not a predefined move ("this heavy chargeable attack cannot be countered, so watch out!") is an exploit in my eyes.

You could bring this up as a topic here on the forum. [...]

It's ridiculous how you're making me create 2 whole new threads about such well-known bugs when I just summarized what they do and what the problem with them is in 2 lines. I didn't think this was necessary, but if there's a chance this well get fixed I will.
Here's a thread about walldiving, and here's a a thread about bypassing slam/kick cooldown.

- The ability to stunlock an opponent because going off an object/platform removes slam/kick cooldown.

What do you mean? I can't understand this one. Is this a bug with the cooldown system in some way?

I'm a bit confused how this would be used to stunlock someone? Stunlocking to me means several overlapping stuns in a row, and when does walking off an object or dropping through a platform let you do that?

Perhaps stunlocking isn't the correct terminology here, but I assumed you'd know what I meant - the act of knocking your opponent down while standing on an elevated object/platform and completely bypassing kick/slam cooldown going off of it to score a few extra hits before the opponent gets up and is able to respond to them accordingly. This gets worsened if you're fighting with a strong melee weapon. I created a thread explaining this further.

EDIT: Apologies for derailing the thread, I wanted to reply after creating the threads I mentioned so I had the reply saved as a draft while I was working on them.

[Gurt]

If you're down to 1 HP and you get dived into you are guaranteed to get killed if this move is used on you, without you being able to respond.

You had your chance to counter the diving player before being caught. If you failed you can take damage depending on what your opponent do to you and where your opponent dives. It's to late to react once you're in your opponents arms falling down 3 levels on hotel for example. You will take damage.

See your other threads for more info.

Off Topic

It's ridiculous how you're making me create 2 whole new threads about such well-known bugs when I just summarized what they do and what the problem with them is in 2 lines.

Rule 9: "Do not make compilation topics."
This is to make each topic focused and stay on topic. This topic is a good example that has spun out of control.
Well-known bugs for who? The players testing the Pre-Alpha that should help us report bugs and exploits they found here on the forum? Or the developers? For us to know about some problem we need it to be brought up here on the forum so it's understandable. Vaguely saying "the melee should be fixed" or "the wall diving needs fixing" doesn't help us. If someone randomly say "The gremling glitch must be fixed" here on the forum I will not understand what it is and I don't think you know about it either (I just made it up). We have seen that but that doesn't mean we automatically know what that person was thinking and what in the melee needs to be fixed!