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Some melee weapons should block shock baton

Give us your input on how we may improve the game in future versions.
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Some melee weapons should block shock baton

Post by Jovani » Sat Dec 14, 2019 5:17 am

When someone attacks you with shock baton, it will leave you stunned and it doesn't matter if you blocked it. I think that it should be blocked only with melee weapons since electricity does not give you, if you do not carry any melee weapon and you try to block it with your hand, I agree that it will leave you stunned because you are blocking it with a hand. Some melee weapons that can't block shock baton attack, for example, it would be pipes or chains, since the material of chain and pipe are only iron and it is energy conductor. Baseball bat can block shock baton attack, since it is made with only wood and it is not energy conductor.
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Post by Scout[tf2] » Sat Dec 14, 2019 11:18 am

I dont think that shock baton needs a nerf. Its perfect they way it was made. Since moments, where you actually stunned by it are rare because of spawn rates (ofcourse if you dont play melee servers 24/7). Also, this weapon helps new players.
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Post by Mighty Spirit the 2 » Mon Dec 16, 2019 6:11 pm

To be honest, i don't appreciate having a weapon that discourages melee combat to opponents since you can't block it at all times. Having a weapon that can bypass blocks and give free grabs, is not really cool, judging that the devs. allready removed an exploit that gave free grabs when any makeshift weapon broke: https://www.mythologicinteractiveforums ... =20&t=2751 . I think it's odd that this basically got "re-added", but now by design.
I would rather have all weapons possess the ability to block shock batton hits, that way a good player could survive an encounter with shock batton using perfectly timed blocks.
But i guess your suggestion is more rational and you would have to re-consider what weapon you should pick-up: "a conductor" or a "non-conductor", anyhow i support it.
Scout[tf2] wrote:
Sat Dec 14, 2019 11:18 am
Also, this weapon helps new players.
That's a weak point imo. Yes, it helps New Players -> by nerfing skilled players. Not everything should be easy for New Players, they have to be able to go into combat without relying on weapons like chainsaw, shock batton and shurikens. :/
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Post by Noble » Tue Dec 17, 2019 1:41 am

^ I appreciate a weapon that discourages melee combat. There are two of them though, but it's fine for me.
Regarding the suggestion, I agree with Scout, they are ok as it is.
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Post by Scout[tf2] » Tue Dec 17, 2019 1:06 pm

Dude, chainsaw and shock baton are rare, they cant rely on such weapons because of their spawn rate and as I told before such moments can not be achieved to the point when its gets annoying. Here is example: I played 25 rounds, in 7 of them I had chainsaw or shock baton, only 4 of them had moments where I needed to use melee, only 2 of them were with chainsaw and 2 were with shock baton, I end up winning only 1/2 with shock baton. As for shurikens, yeah, they are annoying.
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Post by Mighty Spirit the 2 » Tue Dec 17, 2019 11:05 pm

Scout[tf2] wrote:
Tue Dec 17, 2019 1:06 pm
Dude, chainsaw and shock baton are rare, they cant rely on such weapons because of their spawn rate and as I told before such moments can not be achieved to the point when its gets annoying.
Maybe they are rare for you to pick up, but not for me. Today i played 2 hours, then there was one part where i got: (1gl+ 1chainsaw), 1 gl, 1 chainsaw, 1 basooka for 4 rounds straight, then when i did not pick those weapon up i got 2 drones and 3 other rounds shurikens, round after round. I won every single round i had those weapons, so don't come here saying we can't rely on power weapons. Besides; Yes, it does get annoying for every one else.
Scout[tf2] wrote:
Tue Dec 17, 2019 1:06 pm
Here is example: I played 25 rounds, in 7 of them I had chainsaw or shock baton, only 4 of them had moments where I needed to use melee, only 2 of them were with chainsaw and 2 were with shock baton, I end up winning only 1/2 with shock baton.
Ok, let me get this straight, you played 25 rounds and only went melee 4 times (how that even possible): then you used chainsaw for 2, and shock-baton for the other 2? That kind of sounds like relying to me. And that's just the spawn chances for you, how about the other players? You where probably not the only one who got shock-baton, no?

Besides, again, maybe you haven't gotten into situations where a shock-baton stunlock leads to a free grab into a death pit (because 4/25 rounds melee)? For people like me, who pretty much can't avoid melee fights for more then 2 rounds, it can end up happening a lot, and it's very annoying on a bad day.
With @Jovani suggestion, this would transform a shock-baton to more of a skill weapon, then just a: "Masch A until you get a shock + free grab" (when used properly). In fact, by making perfectly timed blocks be able to resist shocks, it would transform shock-baton into the most rewarding melee weapon of all, to go up against. By fighting a player with shock-baton a great player will truly show his skill by getting out of a fight without any shock-damage whatsoever, using perfectly timed blocks and attacks, evasive techniques and mind-games. :ugeek: Again, i have no problem with the shock itself (i accept insta-kills if it's my fault), or the spawn rates, but i do have a problem with the fact that it can punish players who did block, and thus erase them.

+ it would still discourage melee combat for those who are flawed in it, but it would not deter good players from trying their skill.
Scout[tf2] wrote:
Tue Dec 17, 2019 1:06 pm
As for shurikens, yeah, they are annoying
- agreed
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Post by Scout[tf2] » Wed Dec 18, 2019 4:23 am

Oops, I had more melee rounds, what I was trying to say is that only in 4 of them I had chainsaw or shock baton, while in others I had other melee weapons. Yes, there were other people who had shock baton but they end up dying or getting outplayed by me (cause I have my own tactic against shock baton). Without it shock-stun effect this weapon will be basically weakier version of a baton, since there is no point of using shock baton's unique stat becuase it can be easily avoided and im talking about more skilled players, yeah if you use it against other noobs then it will be useful. A lot of people relying on just spamming block when facing somebody with a melee,so they would just ran away from it damaging zone, such weapons like shock baton and chainsaw makes it useless, which encourages people who want to play good create other ways to avoid getting stunned. All games need a weapon which can be used as easy getaway tool.
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Post by Mighty Spirit the 2 » Wed Dec 18, 2019 11:45 am

Scout[tf2] wrote:
Wed Dec 18, 2019 4:23 am
Oops, I had more melee rounds, what I was trying to say is that only in 4 of them I had chainsaw or shock baton, while in others I had other melee weapons. Yes, there were other people who had shock baton but they end up dying or getting outplayed by me (cause I have my own tactic against shock baton).
By that you mean keeping your distance and shooting?
Scout[tf2] wrote:
Wed Dec 18, 2019 4:23 am
Without it shock-stun effect this weapon will be basically weakier version of a baton, since there is no point of using shock baton's unique stat becuase it can be easily avoided and im talking about more skilled players, yeah if you use it against other noobs then it will be useful.
I never said i wanted to remove the shock-effect. I only said i support the idea that someone will get shocked if they block with their hands or a metal weapon. That way the unique stat will still be there.
Scout[tf2] wrote:
Wed Dec 18, 2019 4:23 am
since there is no point of using shock baton's unique stat becuase it can be easily avoided and im talking about more skilled players, yeah if you use it against other noobs then it will be useful.
You would still have to fill up all criterias, and block at the right time, anyhow your argument is not valid, because of the fact that any melee weapon can easily be avoided. Just run away when they come close and shoot from a distance.
Scout[tf2] wrote:
Wed Dec 18, 2019 4:23 am
A lot of people relying on just spamming block when facing somebody with a melee,so they would just ran away from it damaging zone,
Well, just use their blocks against them. Grab them when they blocking, or time your punches correctly (snakefist). It's really rewarding outplaying someone like this.
Scout[tf2] wrote:
Wed Dec 18, 2019 4:23 am
such weapons like shock baton and chainsaw makes it useless, which encourages people who want to play good create other ways to avoid getting stunned.
Running away sounds like a good move? Making blocks useless is pretty dumb, no one will willingly fight you. From chainsaw the only thing you can do is run for your life, it's suicide to fight. With our idea, good ways to avoid getting stunned would be to pick up melee weapons that are non-conductors, and play really defensive and smart.
Scout[tf2] wrote:
Wed Dec 18, 2019 4:23 am
All games need a weapon which can be used as easy getaway tool.
That was supposed to be the jetpack. But we already have speed boost.
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Post by Scout[tf2] » Thu Dec 19, 2019 6:07 am

Well, I gave up but the shock baton should not be changed.
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Post by Vitamin E » Thu Dec 19, 2019 4:53 pm

I think the shock baron is fine as it is due to its low spawn rate and low durability. The only thing I think it broken about the shock baton is that you can get two guaranteed free grabs if you time it correctly. If you hit someone with a shock baton while it’s charged you can grab them immediately afterwards. If you hold them the entire length possible (about 2.5 seconds) this allows the shock baton to recharge while you are holding your opponent. You can then get your free grab punch, hit your opponent again with the fully charged baton, and grab them again. If timed correctly, there is nothing your opponent can do.

I think the shock baton is fine other than the fact that it recharges while you hold people.
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Post by Mighty Spirit the 2 » Thu Dec 19, 2019 6:04 pm

Vitamin E wrote:
Thu Dec 19, 2019 4:53 pm
I think the shock baron is fine as it is due to its low spawn rate and low durability. The only thing I think it broken about the shock baton is that you can get two guaranteed free grabs if you time it correctly. If you hit someone with a shock baton while it’s charged you can grab them immediately afterwards. If you hold them the entire length possible (about 2.5 seconds) this allows the shock baton to recharge while you are holding your opponent. You can then get your free grab punch, hit your opponent again with the fully charged baton, and grab them again. If timed correctly, there is nothing your opponent can do.

I think the shock baton is fine other than the fact that it recharges while you hold people.
i didn't know that. I guess that should be fixed.
I still can't believe people can justify that a move that doesn't require any skill should result into a free grab state. The victim can't even defend himself here. Non-conductor weapons sounds like a fair compromise here.
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Post by OREO » Thu Dec 19, 2019 10:24 pm

I like Jovani’s suggestion forget about the balance talk for a sec, just realize how logical it is:

If you block a shock baton with a wooden bat, pool cue, or chair it should bypass the shock.

Just like... when you’re on fire and you go into water, IT SHOULD put out the fire. But it doesn’t...why?... idk
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Post by Mighty Spirit the 2 » Fri Dec 20, 2019 1:43 pm

OREO wrote:
Thu Dec 19, 2019 10:24 pm
I like Jovani’s suggestion forget about the balance talk for a sec, just realize how logical it is:

If you block a shock baton with a wooden bat, pool cue, or chair it should bypass the shock.

Just like... when you’re on fire and you go into water, IT SHOULD put out the fire. But it doesn’t...why?... idk
It should though. They should fix that.
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Post by Danger Ross » Sat Feb 08, 2020 10:53 pm

SFD is a strategy game. There's nothing wrong with a weapon that discourages a certain tactic, it's just one more thing to add to the dynamic (which is a good thing). Also, stun baton has limited uses, you shouldn't take away the uses that it already has because that would just take away from the dynamic. Less dynamic = less interesting.
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Post by Mighty Spirit the 2 » Wed Feb 12, 2020 9:46 pm

To be honest i'm done arguing about this issue, since i know they aren't going to bother to reconsider anyways.
Danger Ross wrote:
Sat Feb 08, 2020 10:53 pm
SFD is a strategy game. There's nothing wrong with a weapon that discourages a certain tactic, it's just one more thing to add to the dynamic (which is a good thing).
So you're the kind of person that thinks its a good thing if you get chainsawraped in a corner because you can't get out or couldn't outrun your enemy? Or that it's the first person to race to a drone box, when your opponents exhausted and can hardly defend himself, that tips the entire match in your favour and you win by default?
Danger Ross wrote:
Sat Feb 08, 2020 10:53 pm
Also, stun baton has limited uses, you shouldn't take away the uses that it already has because that would just take away from the dynamic.
How often do i gotta type this, i didn't want to take away shock batons potensial, i just wanted to make it more situation dependent, a very slight nerf.
Danger Ross wrote:
Sat Feb 08, 2020 10:53 pm
Less dynamic = less interesting.
You want to talk about the melee changes? They seriously made the game less dynamic. It's why a lot of veteran players have left the game, its become less interesting and less fun to play.
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Post by Danger Ross » Sat Feb 29, 2020 4:25 am

Mighty Spirit the 2 wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 9:46 pm
So you're the kind of person that thinks its a good thing if you get chainsawraped in a corner because you can't get out or couldn't outrun your enemy? Or that it's the first person to race to a drone box, when your opponents exhausted and can hardly defend himself, that tips the entire match in your favour and you win by default?
this is irrelevant, you're just saying nonsense.
Mighty Spirit the 2 wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 9:46 pm
How often do i gotta type this, i didn't want to take away shock batons potensial, i just wanted to make it more situation dependent, a very slight nerf.
nerfing it is taking away its potential.
Mighty Spirit the 2 wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 9:46 pm
You want to talk about the melee changes? They seriously made the game less dynamic. It's why a lot of veteran players have left the game, its become less interesting and less fun to play.
Again, you're saying nonsense. You said nothing about why the shock baton isn't dynamic.

I don't actually care about shock batons that much either but your arguments are weak so I wanted to take them apart.
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Post by KliPeH » Sat Feb 29, 2020 12:19 pm

Off Topic
Danger Ross wrote:
Sat Feb 29, 2020 4:25 am
Mighty Spirit the 2 wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 9:46 pm
You want to talk about the melee changes? They seriously made the game less dynamic. It's why a lot of veteran players have left the game, its become less interesting and less fun to play.
Again, you're saying nonsense. You said nothing about why the shock baton isn't dynamic.
melee static thus veterans gone thus sfd bad

These are actual true facts, didn't you know?
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Post by Rick Sanchez » Sat Feb 29, 2020 8:12 pm

Danger Ross wrote:
Sat Feb 29, 2020 4:25 am
Mighty Spirit the 2 wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 9:46 pm
So you're the kind of person that thinks its a good thing if you get chainsawraped in a corner because you can't get out or couldn't outrun your enemy? Or that it's the first person to race to a drone box, when your opponents exhausted and can hardly defend himself, that tips the entire match in your favour and you win by default?
this is irrelevant, you're just saying nonsense.
Mighty Spirit the 2 wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 9:46 pm
How often do i gotta type this, i didn't want to take away shock batons potensial, i just wanted to make it more situation dependent, a very slight nerf.
nerfing it is taking away its potential.
Mighty Spirit the 2 wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 9:46 pm
You want to talk about the melee changes? They seriously made the game less dynamic. It's why a lot of veteran players have left the game, its become less interesting and less fun to play.
Again, you're saying nonsense. You said nothing about why the shock baton isn't dynamic.

I don't actually care about shock batons that much either but your arguments are weak so I wanted to take them apart.
"your argument were so weak, so i wanted To take them apart"

You didn't, you just said they were irrelevant or nonsense, which Is even less of an argument, its a non argument. Mighty had some good points, you just had nothing To say To them because he is right.
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Post by Mr Argon » Sat Feb 29, 2020 11:59 pm

Sorry for interrumpting, but I really think that what makes a game with no bigger community die, are actually those players who invent "rules" for a game that's meant to be funny and unpredictable. I call them "moral rules", and they are just dumb from my point of view, I do think that you won't decide not to take a streetweeper when your opponent has no stamina and a third of health, or pick up a chainsaw that just spawned there during a melee combat, or refuse to pick up a bazooka when your opponent just has a knife, because it completely breaks the luck-based gameplay that SFD has, which, from my point of view, is what makes SFD a great game and so unique. And that's why I also think that modding would be very nice if it existed on this game, 'cause that way, each player could nerf what he thinks is OP, and many other things. And if you're doing some sort of "competitive match" or tournament, then you just simply use the vanilla game, with no "moral rules" included... That's why I like smaller communities like SFD's, Terraria's or Rimworld's, because those kind of people are minority.

Bigger communities, even in more competitive games like CS:GO or LOL tend to be very toxic sometimes (I don't say that those games are bad, I only say that I personally don't like the communty at all...)
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Post by Danger Ross » Sun Mar 01, 2020 11:18 am

Rick Sanchez wrote:
Sat Feb 29, 2020 8:12 pm
"your argument were so weak, so i wanted To take them apart"

You didn't, you just said they were irrelevant or nonsense, which Is even less of an argument
That's taking it apart. He was going off topic so I wanted to correct him. If you go off topic then your argument doesn't make any sense.
Rick Sanchez wrote:
Sat Feb 29, 2020 8:12 pm
Mighty had some good points, you just had nothing To say To them because he is right.
He did not. Actually, it was the opposite. He had nothing left to say so he just said nonsense. Also, I had enough to say that I even took the time to respond to something so pointless.
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