Never seen more laughable and broken melee than this joke.

[WishICouldGetMyMoneyBack]

Yeah title pretty much, don't come at me with your fan boy sh*t and non constructive comments because I'll just ignore you.

So to start off this isn't because of rage or whatever it's literally the frustration that I paid money for this joke. Melee is a complete mindfuck, combos that literally break animations and are literally impossible to counter. Low ceiling is a joke if your enemy has a chain or bat, if it's a ''Good'' enough player then good luck getting out; I quote ''Good'' for a reason, because there ain't no skill in this circus.

What you need is to be close to the hosts server and know every mechanism of this game and just fuck with people. I do it and I don't enjoy it as it's disgusting and pretty shameful, what kinda skill is mashing A,S. Near impossible way of countering grab, you kick and still get grabbed, you punch 0.1 second too soon you get grabbed. It's honestly laughable.

Block I'm not even going to elaborate on that too much as that needs to be reworked completely, that mechanism is a joke, probably one of the worsts things I've seen in this "Game". I quote game because this is a "Regret paying when it was fun free" simulator, and I have deep regret paying for this. Imagine paying for a product that was better free.

The game is utterly boring as a motherfucker. There's literally nothing here to keep you going other than same shit you've seen 2 years ago. Boring maps played thousand times, Boring weapons seen ages ago, boring features, its so repetetive what is this? Well what can I expect from the devs that don't even play their own game.

Lastly but not least; what makes you play this game? What is in this game that makes you waste your valuable time? I sometimes sit and think to myself. Why am I playing this utter joke instead of studying or spending time else?

[KliPeH]

!

Message from: KliPeH

Edited your post slightly to remove one especially toxic bit. Contemplated removing this thread entirely for breaking rule #3 as it is fairly evident your account was created out of anger and spite. I don’t want to stifle legitimate criticism and prevent your voice from being heard as long as I don’t have a good reason for doing so. Consider this an unofficial warning. You have a right to be angry, there’s still a posting etiquette and rules you need to follow. Keep this civil and constructive please.

[Odex64]

I don't completely agree with your criticism about the "broken" melee.

The melee mechanic has always been the same since the dawn of times, obviously it was nerfed after the Steam release but I don't understand your point of claiming the game was better when it was free.

I've always judged the block and attack mechanic as a fifty fifty. You can block either attack and get 50% of chance to hurt your opponent, or get hurted.

About grabs nobody really appreciated that feature.. however that's an extra move rather than just A or D; Sometimes you still get grabbed even though you're attacking, but that's matter of milliseconds.

You can download new maps or use some scripts to customize your gamemode and make the game more dynamic than usual. Devs also added new weapons and "Streetsweeper", so saying there are weapons of ages ago ain't true.

Last but not less important people still play this game because is just fun with friends and some people love to make content such as maps or scripts. I'm that player who loves spending hours and hours in map editor, even tho only few players will use our custom content, I (and content creators) love to experiment new things.

I'm not claiming this game is perfect, but you've just said some bad statements. Here's my constructive critic; I Hope you'll understand it and please, keep a civil behavior.

[Mighty Spirit the 2]

Melee is a complete mindfuck, combos that literally break animations and are literally impossible to counter. Low ceiling is a joke if your enemy has a chain or bat, if it's a ''Good'' enough player then good luck getting out; I quote ''Good'' for a reason, because there ain't no skill in this circus.

True, this is the result of people meddling with melee, and then failing to test it enough afterwards. The kick->stagger->stunlock was brushed off as being by design, and the removal of rolling to safety after getting struck with a jumpattack really messed up the combo system. It literally introduced infinites into the game, so go make yourself a snack and come back, cause your dead either way. Combos aren't skillful anymore, and the fact that most losses or wins can be attributed to either you or your opponent being "unlucky" because the game ain't working in their favor (getting random cooldowns, or throw bugging out, stunlocked, bouncing off map edge..etc) makes it hard if not impossible to clearly determine who's the better player.

What you need is to be close to the hosts server and know every mechanism of this game and just fuck with people. I do it and I don't enjoy it as it's disgusting and pretty shameful, what kinda skill is mashing A,S. Near impossible way of countering grab, you kick and still get grabbed, you punch 0.1 second too soon you get grabbed. It's honestly laughable.

True, new melee relies heavily on ping based combat. Its 2020 and grabs still don't have a "real" reliable counter. I just use no_grab script in my server. And then there's the unfairness of ping again. When someone with high ping (yellow) presses grab against someone with low ping (<20) and the low pinger mashes a, most likely the aggressor gets stunlocked and hit with 2 entire punches before he can block the third, upon which he probably gets hits with another rising punch while staggering. But if someone with low ping tries grabbing someone with high ping, of course the same fails to occur.

Block I'm not even going to elaborate on that too much as that needs to be reworked completely, that mechanism is a joke, probably one of the worsts things I've seen in this "Game".

The only change done to blocking (to my knowledge) was the changing of blockframes, which I'm not a big fan of. But yes, the game has complete joke inputs, you can mash block and still get hit. I'd just revert back to previous SFD versions when it was actually reliable.

I quote game because this is a "Regret paying when it was fun free" simulator, and I have deep regret paying for this. Imagine paying for a product that was better free.

Again true, Pre-Alpha had the most potential, and then beta 1.02c was the best version, at least in my opinion (Nostalgia). The updates have been good for the creative community though.

The game is utterly boring as a motherfucker. There's literally nothing here to keep you going other than same shit you've seen 2 years ago. Boring maps played thousand times, Boring weapons seen ages ago, boring features, its so repetetive what is this? Well what can I expect from the devs that don't even play their own game.

Here i disagree. It's not boring unless you keep getting killed within the first few seconds every round. They used a lot of time and effort on The new maps and new additions, but they aren't much to brag about, and the polluted weapon pool is what turned me off.
Yes, they don't play near enough.

Lastly but not least; what makes you play this game?

I don't actually play like i used to anymore. I spend my time coming up with suggestions on how to improve the game, constructive criticism instead of destructive. The hard part is getting people to care, but i know that shouting at people and cursive language won't necessarily make your voice heard louder.

[Mighty Spirit the 2]

I don't completely agree with your criticism about the "broken" melee.

Everything he said about melee is true, combos are broken and block can't be trusted. You just have to play a few hundred hours of melee, then compare it to old melee, and you'll eventually see it too.

The melee mechanic has always been the same since the dawn of times, obviously it was nerfed after the Steam release...

What? Melee has undergone huge changes in SFD development. There's Pre-alpha 1.2.1 melee, then Pre-Alpha 1.8.4 melee, Pre-Alpha 1.10.0, Alpha and Beta, and then ofc the infamous melee nerfs.

About grabs nobody really appreciated that feature.. however that's an extra move rather than just A or D; Sometimes you still get grabbed even though you're attacking, but that's matter of milliseconds.

Cheap players appreciate it a lot. Being able to grab people who are spamming a with a chain shouldn't even be possible.

Last but not less important people still play this game because is just fun with friends and some people love to make content such as maps or scripts. I'm that player who loves spending hours and hours in map editor, even tho only few players will use our custom content, I (and content creators) love to experiment new things.

Good for you. Thank you for your contribution to the community. However all that time spend on working will make it hard to see the game from my perspective.

[DaxOttsel]

I'm not a fanboy but I just wanted to say, I love this fucking game. I don't understand why people criticizes it so much and I don't think the meele system is broken. With all honestly SFD is the only game I play anymore, I've been playing for more than a year and I just have so much fun with it. You just sound like you're full of hate for whatever reason, if you don't like the game then just please understand that other people do like it, in my case I freaking love it! To me it's the best game ever made.

[Mighty Spirit the 2]

I've been playing for more than a year and I just have so much fun with it.

This is exactly your problem. You never played any of the old versions when the game was free. So you can't possibly compare it to how much better the game was back then. You just have to take our Veteran word for it.

...I love this fucking game. I don't understand why people criticizes it so much... With all honestly SFD is the only game I play anymore... in my case I freaking love it! To me it's the best game ever made.

Sorry, but everything you say makes you look like a fanboy.

and I don't think the meele system is broken.

Either you don't pay enough attention to melee, or you must be the luckiest player I've ever met. If you've never seen melee break you must be playing some sort of special SFD patch. Trust me, i have footage of melee breaking, and it's not a good sight. And if you have seen it, but think it's all "by design", it's not lol.

[WishICouldGetMyMoneyBack]

!

Message from: KliPeH

Edited your post slightly to remove one especially toxic bit. Contemplated removing this thread entirely for breaking rule #3 as it is fairly evident your account was created out of anger and spite. I don’t want to stifle legitimate criticism and prevent your voice from being heard as long as I don’t have a good reason for doing so. Consider this an unofficial warning. You have a right to be angry, there’s still a posting etiquette and rules you need to follow. Keep this civil and constructive please.

My account wasn't made out of anger. I wasn't even playing the game at the time; I thought of making this post as a way to see if others can relate. I'm not 16 to make a post out of rage.

[WishICouldGetMyMoneyBack]

I don't completely agree with your criticism about the "broken" melee.

The melee mechanic has always been the same since the dawn of times, obviously it was nerfed after the Steam release but I don't understand your point of claiming the game was better when it was free.

I've always judged the block and attack mechanic as a fifty fifty. You can block either attack and get 50% of chance to hurt your opponent, or get hurted.

About grabs nobody really appreciated that feature.. however that's an extra move rather than just A or D; Sometimes you still get grabbed even though you're attacking, but that's matter of milliseconds.

You can download new maps or use some scripts to customize your gamemode and make the game more dynamic than usual. Devs also added new weapons and "Streetsweeper", so saying there are weapons of ages ago ain't true.

Last but not less important people still play this game because is just fun with friends and some people love to make content such as maps or scripts. I'm that player who loves spending hours and hours in map editor, even tho only few players will use our custom content, I (and content creators) love to experiment new things.

I'm not claiming this game is perfect, but you've just said some bad statements. Here's my constructive critic; I Hope you'll understand it and please, keep a civil behavior.

Well I'm not sure since when you've been playing but melee is very much different on the steam version. Mighty gave amazing examples below. Block shouldn't be the way it is. It makes no sense, it's so inconsistent. stun locks are near impossible to counter, not sure how it exactly works but an opponent can just mash A and sometimes your block is instantly canceled. As if it isn't even a thing, basically what I am saying; there is no learning curve to block. There's no consistency, it just works when it wants to. New player are gonna have a hard time learning this game, and I do feel like that's one of the main causes why the game has such a small community. Nobody wants to spend 50hrs for a game they paid just to come out empty handed and frustrated.

As to the content you're right. There's a lot of creativity and freedom, that's my mistake, I was aiming at the official content rather than community made.

[Hjarpe]

The game is utterly boring as a motherfucker. There's literally nothing here to keep you going other than same shit you've seen 2 years ago. Boring maps played thousand times, Boring weapons seen ages ago, boring features, its so repetetive what is this? Well what can I expect from the devs that don't even play their own game.

Apparently the only moral thing to do if you ever have the AUDACITY to release a game to the public is to spend every waking hour for the rest of your life supporting that one game. Whatever other potential you feel you might have, whatever dreams and ambitions you harbour, must be forever set aside to focus on your sole duty, which is to deliver an endless stream of free-of-charge "content", patches, tweaks and fixes until you die of old age.

I was not aware of this arrangement, and will adjust my life goals accordingly. Apologies.

[WishICouldGetMyMoneyBack]

I'm not a fanboy but I just wanted to say, I love this fucking game. I don't understand why people criticizes it so much and I don't think the meele system is broken. With all honestly SFD is the only game I play anymore, I've been playing for more than a year and I just have so much fun with it. You just sound like you're full of hate for whatever reason, if you don't like the game then just please understand that other people do like it, in my case I freaking love it! To me it's the best game ever made.

Fair enough for you man. I'm not full of hate, it's frustration for something you believed in and paid for with your hard earned money and come out dissapointed. I mean if you like it I am happy for you, that's what I like to hear from people playing this game, so I can feel that I am the one who's wrong not the game. But the numbers of players that left is alarming, the game should be 3x bigger that it was and all that happened to it, is that it shrinked even more.

Steam was supposed to expand the game and make it more reachable to everyone but it failed, unfortunately.

[WishICouldGetMyMoneyBack]

I don't completely agree with your criticism about the "broken" melee.

Everything he said about melee is true, combos are broken and block can't be trusted. You just have to play a few hundred hours of melee, then compare it to old melee, and you'll eventually see it too.

The melee mechanic has always been the same since the dawn of times, obviously it was nerfed after the Steam release...

What? Melee has undergone huge changes in SFD development. There's Pre-alpha 1.2.1 melee, then Pre-Alpha 1.8.4 melee, Pre-Alpha 1.10.0, Alpha and Beta, and then ofc the infamous melee nerfs.

About grabs nobody really appreciated that feature.. however that's an extra move rather than just A or D; Sometimes you still get grabbed even though you're attacking, but that's matter of milliseconds.

Cheap players appreciate it a lot. Being able to grab people who are spamming a with a chain shouldn't even be possible.

Last but not less important people still play this game because is just fun with friends and some people love to make content such as maps or scripts. I'm that player who loves spending hours and hours in map editor, even tho only few players will use our custom content, I (and content creators) love to experiment new things.

Good for you. Thank you for your contribution to the community. However all that time spend on working will make it hard to see the game from my perspective.

Everything you said, is pretty much true. Melee differences from those versions you stated above and the steam version are like day and night. But we can't call it "better" anymore as obviously it doesn't fit everyones liking. I want everyone to enjoy the game. But there's obviously a conflict between new and old players about melee, and fact of the matter is. Melee needs a rework.

I'll answer your answer above shortly.

[Odex64]

The game is utterly boring as a motherfucker. There's literally nothing here to keep you going other than same shit you've seen 2 years ago. Boring maps played thousand times, Boring weapons seen ages ago, boring features, its so repetetive what is this? Well what can I expect from the devs that don't even play their own game.

Apparently the only moral thing to do if you ever have the AUDACITY to release a game to the public is to spend every waking hour for the rest of your life supporting that one game. Whatever other potential you feel you might have, whatever dreams and ambitions you harbour, must be forever set aside to focus on your sole duty, which is to deliver an endless stream of free-of-charge "content", patches, tweaks and fixes until you die of old age.

I was not aware of this arrangement, and will adjust my life goals accordingly. Apologies.

I've been always complaining about the game and continuously asking for patches and new content even tho it'd take time. But the time changed my mind and I understand your point of view. As I said more than once isn't devs fault if the game is still incomplete or has some bad/broken mechanics. You've been working on this game for almost (or more) 8 years. Every HUMAN would get tired of it. Perhaps if you were working on this game for only few years, you could change many aspects of melee; But the common player thinks devs are kind of ROBOT and they can't understand how frustrating is to get many criticisms after all your hard work and kept asking for updates after all these years (even tho it's a waste of potential). I've seen many game devs who DON'T care about their players or just let the keep die after barely 4 years of development. So I don't understand all that anger from the community. Players are right too, but every single thing has its own time, and I think SFD reached is goal. Keep in mind there are many other projects than this which may be better.

[Mighty Spirit the 2]

But the common player thinks devs are kind of ROBOT and they can't understand how frustrating is to get many criticisms after all your hard work and kept asking for updates after all these years (even tho it's a waste of potential).

What's wrong with criticism? It's thanks to the community's criticism and suggestions that the game ever made it this far. The problems started arising when they no longer listened to valid criticism, or perhaps didn't understand the flaws in the game because they played too little.
For example:
Limited movement and tricks fix
Recovery Roll System and Quick Roll Nerf should be abolished
Opinions on combos in melee?
The new Double Hit in melee.
Some melee weapons should block shock baton

I've seen many game devs who DON'T care about their players or just let the keep die after barely 4 years of development. So I don't understand all that anger from the community.

But that's the thing. If we go to the news archive and scroll down to the beginning. Then say they started their work around September 2012, around 4 years later would have been around September or October 2016, which would have been either right around The Alpha update. IF they had abandoned the game then, it would still have been superior game play wise and more fun (not for creative community though). Even Pre-alpha players i've talked too agree it would have been more fun.

[WishICouldGetMyMoneyBack]

The game is utterly boring as a motherfucker. There's literally nothing here to keep you going other than same shit you've seen 2 years ago. Boring maps played thousand times, Boring weapons seen ages ago, boring features, its so repetetive what is this? Well what can I expect from the devs that don't even play their own game.

Apparently the only moral thing to do if you ever have the AUDACITY to release a game to the public is to spend every waking hour for the rest of your life supporting that one game. Whatever other potential you feel you might have, whatever dreams and ambitions you harbour, must be forever set aside to focus on your sole duty, which is to deliver an endless stream of free-of-charge "content", patches, tweaks and fixes until you die of old age.

I was not aware of this arrangement, and will adjust my life goals accordingly. Apologies.

Is that what you're saying? I don't recall anybody or myself saying that the devs have to keep working on the game. They promised planned features, we paid so I think we deserve things we were promised back. That's not to say they have to do it, morally it would be the right thing to deliver what you've promised, don't you thin so?

[WishICouldGetMyMoneyBack]

The game is utterly boring as a motherfucker. There's literally nothing here to keep you going other than same shit you've seen 2 years ago. Boring maps played thousand times, Boring weapons seen ages ago, boring features, its so repetetive what is this? Well what can I expect from the devs that don't even play their own game.

Apparently the only moral thing to do if you ever have the AUDACITY to release a game to the public is to spend every waking hour for the rest of your life supporting that one game. Whatever other potential you feel you might have, whatever dreams and ambitions you harbour, must be forever set aside to focus on your sole duty, which is to deliver an endless stream of free-of-charge "content", patches, tweaks and fixes until you die of old age.

I was not aware of this arrangement, and will adjust my life goals accordingly. Apologies.

I've been always complaining about the game and continuously asking for patches and new content even tho it'd take time. But the time changed my mind and I understand your point of view. As I said more than once isn't devs fault if the game is still incomplete or has some bad/broken mechanics. You've been working on this game for almost (or more) 8 years. Every HUMAN would get tired of it. Perhaps if you were working on this game for only few years, you could change many aspects of melee; But the common player thinks devs are kind of ROBOT and they can't understand how frustrating is to get many criticisms after all your hard work and kept asking for updates after all these years (even tho it's a waste of potential). I've seen many game devs who DON'T care about their players or just let the keep die after barely 4 years of development. So I don't understand all that anger from the community. Players are right too, but every single thing has its own time, and I think SFD reached is goal. Keep in mind there are many other projects than this which may be better.

I understand what you're saying but SFD definately didn't reach its ''Goal'' If anything it reached it's downfall. Look at the state of the game now and 2 years ago. It's actually sad what happened.

That said, nobody thinks devs are robots; all they had to do is listen to ''Us'' and deliver what the game needed which was, I quote. "FIX MELEE", "REMOVE GRABS" Or at least nerf them. "Fix this janky delayed input". Have you noticed that your input isn't always synced with slow mo? Or sometimes when you press punch exactly when you're about to get grabbed, the animation plays but you still get grabbed? All of this could of been fixed since the game hit steam. But all you see is minor updates.

"Fixed drones" - That could of been fixed in 10 minutes just changing values to the health boom finished.

Nobody asked for a chainsaw or shock batons. Shock's are whatever to me but chainsaw? I laughed when I first saw it in disbelieve. A competetive game that has things like this is kind of mindblowing.

[Hjarpe]

Is that what you're saying? I don't recall anybody or myself saying that the devs have to keep working on the game. They promised planned features, we paid so I think we deserve things we were promised back. That's not to say they have to do it, morally it would be the right thing to deliver what you've promised, don't you thin so?

Not sure what you're referring to, as we've been extremely careful not to overpromise. As far as I know, we've never even implied something will be in the game without heavy disclaimers that the plan could change at any time.

[KliPeH]

[...] A competetive game that has things like this is kind of mindblowing.

Wait, SFD is competitive? I was under the impression you could spawn near unavoidable insta-killing hazards and be given random power-weaponry, health pickup and booster items based solely on the game’s whim... that’s not to speak of the random critical hit chance, bullet dodgerolling failure and unmanageable weapon recoil...

I mean, I’m biased as all hell, sure. I moderate the forums, I create content, I got the game for free and speak to the devs from time to time. I like SFD, personally. I don’t think I’m in a position to argue any of the points brought up in this thread as I haven’t played against a single human opponent in months. That said, I firmly believe melee “purists” like yourself forget an entire game exists outside of the little melee-map-rotating, no-grab-enabled, fists-only scope you restrict yourself and your veteran “the game was better in Alpha” friends to.

You are the same toxic, exclusive people that we used to clown on for actively making restrictive rulesets and partaking in made-up “code of honor” systems back in the day. That’s laughable. You’ve matured but you’re still playing the game the same ridiculous way. No grabbing, no running, no interfering in 1v1 skirmishes, yadda yadda. You’re somehow still under the assumption SFD is in any way, shape or form “fair” or “balanced”. I host my own games so melee never feels delayed or broken to me. I literally never encounter these issues while playing. I don’t see a problem with the existing combos, movesets or dodgerolls. The game is okay. The real issue is how absolutely reliant the game is on good (sub-30) ping, but I don’t think that’s something subject to change so I won’t even bother addressing it.

I disregarded @Mighty Spirit the 2’s opinion and everything they said up until that point as soon as I read they’re using a no-grab script in their games - that gives me all the information I need to know about the player’s mindset; how they’re stuck in the past playing old game versions trying to shape them into a personal, perfect videogame of their own. You’re also like this, OP. You’re disabling an integral part of the game because it doesn’t suit your liking. You want exploits like "wall-nailing" to make a return despite them clearly being exploits and only contributing to feelings of frustration and hopelessness players get from being stuck in an endless, unavoidable death-sentence of a combo. That’s laughable to me.

It’s not Pre-Alpha anymore. It’s an unfortunate truth you‘ll have to accept, eventually. You don’t tailor the game to suit your needs, you either tailor yourself to it or leave it be. Many new players enjoy the game as is, neither your vocal minority nor your sense of nostalgia are just enough to cause a revert in major changes (and improvements) done to the game since its very early baby years. The devs have just announced they will no longer be adding to or modifying the game, and you’re stuck here arguing why a certain move doesn’t work the way you want it to; why are you so invested in a product you no longer enjoy using?

Is that what you're saying? I don't recall anybody or myself saying that the devs have to keep working on the game. They promised planned features, we paid so I think we deserve things we were promised back. That's not to say they have to do it, morally it would be the right thing to deliver what you've promised, don't you thin so?

It’s funny you should speak of the devs’ not following up on their promises. Drones (turrets), a shock baton and a chainsaw - all of which you deem overpowered - have all been much-requested features and thus on the to-do list (on the old forum) from the early Pre-Alpha stages of the game. I myself had to remove countless threads (on the new forum) asking for these specific features because a Planned Feature thread was already up for them. Someone said flaming and explosive ammo were also seen as overpowered - these were also community-requested.

There were even to-do features that were requested by the community they scrapped due to the community’s backlash - grenade and debris contact damage, for example, which I personally was especially fond of. C4, Shuriken, silenced weapons, female fighters and leg customization options, a trash can lid being a usable weapon, new maps and campaigns... the devs do listen to you, and you ignoring that - and the progress they’ve made throughout the years - is a true disservice to them in my opinion.

But what do I know, I’m just a "fanboy".

[Sh4d0w]

this topic is based

[WishICouldGetMyMoneyBack]

[...] A competetive game that has things like this is kind of mindblowing.

I disregarded @Mighty Spirit the 2’s opinion and everything they said up until that point as soon as I read they’re using a no-grab script in their games - that gives me all the information I need to know about the player’s mindset; how they’re stuck in the past playing old game versions trying to shape them into a personal, perfect videogame of their own. You’re disabling an integral part of the game because it doesn’t suit your liking. You want exploits like wall-nailing to make a return despite them clearly being exploits and only contributing to feelings of frustration and hopelessness players get from being stuck in an endless, unavoidable death-sentence of a combo. That’s ridiculous to me.

Well let's be honest. The game was in a much better state than now, that's why we're remuniscing the good times. That also explains why the game is virtually dead compared to when it was in a more "Enjoyable" state.