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Pre-Alpha Melee VS Now

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Pre-Alpha Melee VS Now

Post by Pregnant » Tue Jan 15, 2019 8:19 pm

Before I get hit by "it's our vision of the game", please hear me out.
I started playing SFD during the pre-alpha and haven't stopped playing regularly since then.
I have witnessed almost every major change and feature in the game and the thing that "marked" me the most is the "huge" re-design of the melee combat.

Back in the pre-alpha days, I felt like a fast and strong fighter with tons of possibilities combo-wise.
After the Alpha update, everything started to feel "different". In a bad way? I don't know, but it felt clunkier. I stopped feeling fast and strong. I didn't feel like "I" was strong, it felt like my WEAPONS were strong. To be honest with you, I regret the pre-alpha melee. It was more fast-paced and the community was overall less toxic.

I still love the game a lot to this day, but I can't say I appreciate the current melee we have. I know the game isn't all about melee-combat but I can't stop thinking about how the game used to feel a lot better, in my opinion, back in the days.
I also can't stop thinking about the grab mechanic as well. I don't understand how a punch is dealing more damage than a metal weapon (ig: pipe wrench) ...?

I hope to start a discussion about this subject and hopefully get answers. Like I said earlier I still love the game a lot but if the game keeps going this way I'll probably leave the game. The game having a "chaotic" atmosphere doesn't justify the unbalance of some weapons and mechanics.
It's still your game though, and I really appreciate the amount of efforts you've put into SFD.
6 x

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Post by Pricey » Tue Jan 15, 2019 9:26 pm

I agree that melee feels a lot slower in this version of the game, especially compared to the Pre-Alpha versions (some of these aspects were covered in this topic). While I too prefer the old, fast-paced melee to the new style, I can see why the devs have changed it, and would probably say it was for the better.

Melee in the old versions was extremely good, and while guns still reigned supreme, it wasn't by a very big margin - this was only emphasised after grabs were introduced - some of the combos that could be pulled off after this update were unholy and would sometimes favour chasedown melee over run and gun (some of these combos had the potential to deal around 50 damage). If these combos and this playstyle of melee still existed nowadays, it would almost certainly discourage new players from coming back to the game, which is not what the devs want when the game is being released to the biggest game market there is. The new melee system also allows newer players to adapt and learn melee moves to at least sometimes hold their own against more experienced players.

If you feel like your weapons are strong, then good, that's what you should feel, because having weapons should always make you feel more powerful than if you have none, and guns should be better than melee in 95% of game situations.

As for grab balancing, I think they are fine, it is a high-risk, high-reward manoeuvre. Hitting the grab is great, but missing it comes with consequences (i.e. being stunned long enough for a player to grab you back, or initiate a combo). Missing a grab near a ledge is essentially a certain death.

I do agree that the game did feel better back in the days (although I'm not really that old of a player), but will anything really beat the first months of playing SFD for the first time? I can certainly say that it couldn't. I would still be welcoming to the old melee system returning, but the community is evolving, it is no longer a small group of experienced players, but a larger group with an increasing majority of newer players, and the devs have probably decided to adapt to this change.
2 x

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Post by Gurt » Tue Jan 15, 2019 9:45 pm

We have no further plans to change the melee combat.

Majority of the changes (if not all) we have done up to the release of the game compared to the PRE-ALPHA (a game that is a work-in-progress and not representative of the final version of the game) when it comes to melee has been to address different issues and game-play exploits we never intended in earlier versions of the game. (Dolphin-diving, shotgun-kick-combos, abort-roll-abuse, etc...) Some changes have been subtle but necessary according to us to combat certain (advanced) exploitable melee-combo-patters we never intended. Play testing and feedback throughout the pre-alpha, alpha and beta has helped us make the decisions up to this point.
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Post by Pregnant » Tue Jan 15, 2019 10:23 pm

I can agree to a certain extent, but I still don't understand why you needed to slow the melee down to " greet " new players.
As soon as the Alpha update arrived, I instantly felt like I was a chunk of meat running around with weapons. Why? I don't know. But I'm pretty sure it felt ultimately better in the pre-alpha days.
The game is a lot better now IN GENERAL and more stable, but if I could bring back the old melee, I would.
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Post by [Failman] » Wed Jan 16, 2019 5:49 am

Melee has always been a popular topic on fourm but to understand why things happened and how it affected that game we need to understand a few things. Was old sfd new user friendly? No, old sfd was not user friendly despite how awesome its fast pace action was, the game was still monumentally buggy and easily exploitable. The move that nerfed melees whole combat system was a text book example of broken and buggy, it literally left players completely helpless as their hp was shaved down, Shootgun used to be so powerful we had a whole video on it that addressed the issue, diving on wall could be spammed and allowed for two free hits, stamina could be completely ignored by jumping around. Yes I also miss sfds old combat system despite how buggy, exploitable, messed up it was but it was broken and it needed fixing, if it couldn’t be realized then I’m happy with what we got. I dug up some old topics from the old forums that shows example of players being really invested in the melee system which were found after typing melee and I’m sure you could find more if you looked for it. The old Melee system will be missed but we should accept the new system, stop reminiscing on things we’ll probably never get until someone makes a mod and be happy. Old sfd melee, I forget you.

https://mythologicinteractive.com/forum ... ew,players
http://mythologicinteractive.com/forum/ ... hichpage=2
https://mythologicinteractive.com/forum ... erms=Skill
https://mythologicinteractive.com/forum ... erms=Skill
0 x
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Post by Rick Sanchez » Wed Jan 16, 2019 10:41 am

Pregnant wrote:
Tue Jan 15, 2019 8:19 pm
Before I get hit by "it's our vision of the game", please hear me out.
I started playing SFD during the pre-alpha and haven't stopped playing regularly since then.
I have witnessed almost every major change and feature in the game and the thing that "marked" me the most is the "huge" re-design of the melee combat.

Back in the pre-alpha days, I felt like a fast and strong fighter with tons of possibilities combo-wise.
After the Alpha update, everything started to feel "different". In a bad way? I don't know, but it felt clunkier. I stopped feeling fast and strong. I didn't feel like "I" was strong, it felt like my WEAPONS were strong. To be honest with you, I regret the pre-alpha melee. It was more fast-paced and the community was overall less toxic.

I still love the game a lot to this day, but I can't say I appreciate the current melee we have. I know the game isn't all about melee-combat but I can't stop thinking about how the game used to feel a lot better, in my opinion, back in the days.
I also can't stop thinking about the grab mechanic as well. I don't understand how a punch is dealing more damage than a metal weapon (ig: pipe wrench) ...?

I hope to start a discussion about this subject and hopefully get answers. Like I said earlier I still love the game a lot but if the game keeps going this way I'll probably leave the game. The game having a "chaotic" atmosphere doesn't justify the unbalance of some weapons and mechanics.
It's still your game though, and I really appreciate the amount of efforts you've put into SFD.
The community definetly wasnt any less toxic than it is now. I dont know why you even bring up toxicity, it doesnt even have anything to do with the topic you made this thread about. Yeah i agree, things have changed, but it's for the better (in my opinion), i think you really have to time all your attacks instead of spamming the button until shit happens, like it used to be. And if the game is meant to be "chaotic" by the devs then yeah theres really no reason for you to complain about balance issues. Even though i dont like the chaotic factor sometimes, i still understand everything doesnt have to be competitive even though skill gives you an advantage in this game.
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Post by Nets p2 » Thu Jan 17, 2019 12:35 pm

https://www.mythologicinteractiveforums ... f=9&t=3417

Server movement (server side) has been a problem, now the melee is dead :|
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Post by RickAvory » Thu Jan 17, 2019 1:46 pm

I haven’t been around since the “pre pre alpha” versions of the game (where kneeling wasn’t even a thing) but melee has felt the same since when I started to the end of 1.0.2c. Maybe at the time I was less aware of the melee mechanics hence didn’t noticed any change, but that’s my two cents.

Although the melee does feel more slow and boring in my opinion, it’s just going to be something we have to get used to. I feel that I was able to adjust my melee tactics to this change by simply kicking instead of punching before the roll, resulting in an almost instant cooldown like before.
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Post by Evilsack » Thu Jan 17, 2019 7:04 pm

Rick Sanchez wrote:
Wed Jan 16, 2019 10:41 am
Pregnant wrote:
Tue Jan 15, 2019 8:19 pm
Before I get hit by "it's our vision of the game", please hear me out.
► Show Spoiler
The community definetly wasnt any less toxic than it is now. I dont know why you even bring up toxicity, it doesnt even have anything to do with the topic you made this thread about. Yeah i agree, things have changed, but it's for the better (in my opinion), i think you really have to time all your attacks instead of spamming the button until shit happens, like it used to be. And if the game is meant to be "chaotic" by the devs then yeah theres really no reason for you to complain about balance issues. Even though i dont like the chaotic factor sometimes, i still understand everything doesnt have to be competitive even though skill gives you an advantage in this game.
You'd be surprised at how toxic the game really is currently.
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-Evilsack
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Post by Rick Sanchez » Thu Jan 17, 2019 9:01 pm

Evilsack wrote:
Thu Jan 17, 2019 7:04 pm
Rick Sanchez wrote:
Wed Jan 16, 2019 10:41 am
Pregnant wrote:
Tue Jan 15, 2019 8:19 pm
Before I get hit by "it's our vision of the game", please hear me out.
► Show Spoiler
The community definetly wasnt any less toxic than it is now. I dont know why you even bring up toxicity, it doesnt even have anything to do with the topic you made this thread about. Yeah i agree, things have changed, but it's for the better (in my opinion), i think you really have to time all your attacks instead of spamming the button until shit happens, like it used to be. And if the game is meant to be "chaotic" by the devs then yeah theres really no reason for you to complain about balance issues. Even though i dont like the chaotic factor sometimes, i still understand everything doesnt have to be competitive even though skill gives you an advantage in this game.
You'd be surprised at how toxic the game really is currently.
What? That's what i just said. The game is toxic and it used to be as toxic as it is now :lol:
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