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The Devs's Opinionation Against A Competitive Mode

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The Devs's Opinionation Against A Competitive Mode

Post by StarNord » Mon Mar 26, 2018 2:40 am

Now, i'm not a very competitive player and I understand where the devs are coming from when they say that they do not want a competitive mode, but they have to bite the bullet for once and realize that this game could really benefit from a competitive mode.

Not only will this feature send all the tryhards away from casual servers (allowing casuals to just have fun and not get their asses kicked everytime by some stuffy narcissist) but it'll allow the game to maintain a healthy playerbase. (otherwise it'd be like cortex command with only a thriving modding community and nothing else)

I find the decision to add a competitive mode to SFD similar to the one Klei made for Don't Starve, although the game didn't look like it would work as a multiplayer game, the players recommended it and the devs delivered which sprung the game to finally become a thing beyond the secluded and small singleplayer community.

just because SFD doesn't seem like a good candidate for a competitive mode doesn't mean it can't become one, although it might've not been the vision of the devs to have a competitive environment for the tryhards. The "just fun and chaotic" model isn't going to last either if every match just gets steamrolled by said tryhards who have nowhere to go for a real challenge, or they can just turn SFD into a chaotic mess where only the luckiest wins, essentially making every match into a win slot-machine.(I was joking in that sentence... lol, amirite?)

jokes aside, adding a competitive mode doesn't mean that competitive matches won't be fun and chaotic, instead here, it would be skill over chaos which means getting rid of more luck-based features like duds, spinning knives, etc.

The ol' SF was literally(not figuratively) my childhood, I remember a night where I couldn't sleep just because of how bad I wanted to play SF the next day with my brother, so I kept waking up periodically after only a few hours of sleep after which I had to force myself back to sleep again. (yup, ol' SF gave me insomnia)

I really want this game to succeed, and while this may seem a bit selfish I want the devs to do whatever it takes to keep it relevant as long as it doesn't take away the magic of SuperFighters.

I could've gone on for longer but since I digressed a bit I'd rather like to know the SFD community's, especially @Lunatic(to know whether he's changed his mind) since he's been a big voice for the "competitive push" for SFD, and also (hopefully) the "dynamic duo's" input on whether a competitive mode should be implemented or not.
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Post by Vitamin E » Mon Mar 26, 2018 3:23 am

You seem to be against “tryhards”
If you are having so much trouble playing with said players, why not host your own server where you can control who is or isn’t in your server?

The devs of this game want it to be fun and funny and making it competitive would take the fun out of it. Just because other players play at a higher level than yourself doesn’t mean you should talk down on them.

I’m sorry that you had to deal with people that were skilled at the game and rude at the same time. Those kinds of players are annoying to anyone. Like I said before, just host your own server and you’ll have a better time playing the game (which was designed to be fun).
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Post by Sree » Mon Mar 26, 2018 4:07 am

Vitamin E wrote:
Mon Mar 26, 2018 3:23 am
You seem to be against “tryhards”
If you are having so much trouble playing with said players, why not host your own server where you can control who is or isn’t in your server?

The devs of this game want it to be fun and funny and making it competitive would take the fun out of it. Just because other players play at a higher level than yourself doesn’t mean you should talk down on them.

I’m sorry that you had to deal with people that were skilled at the game and rude at the same time. Those kinds of players are annoying to anyone. Like I said before, just host your own server and you’ll have a better time playing the game (which was designed to be fun).
He wasn't against tryhards, he simply said that ranked mode will let casual players play in a more peaceful and casual way.

also, Starnord suggested a separate gamemode for competitive players, so this wouldn't affect the casual/current mode of fun and chaos. If you think that the game becoming competitive would take away the fun, you havent played any competitive games yet lol
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Post by Formel » Mon Mar 26, 2018 3:44 pm

The thing is - those who beat everyone at ease and still are sticking around murdering everyone, won't just go in their sandbox and play there. They WILL come out and they WILL kick your ass. First - making corrals for different kind of players is always bad. Second - come on, it is player-hosted game. Devs have nothing to do with servers and stuff. Just apply some moderation to a server and clean out those who just beat everyone and being toxic about it. And I won't recommend to abuse it - playing with someone who is better than you actually teaches you stuff. Trust me, I learn to play exactly this way.

I understand if you are not going to learn - it's ok to just come to our cozy town of scullcracking mayhem from time to time without actually going deeply in, but implementing "competetive" right now... It's just seems out of place. For that kind of stuff you might need maintained servers, which actually cost alot, for saving up all stats and hosting, because, you know, host can cheat easily. And I think that Gurt had stated clearly - they are not going to make servers. At least for now. Server moderation is the answer, if you want to just hang out casually. Lack of servers that welcome new or just casual players is just another thing that probably needs another discussion thread.
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Post by mgtr14 » Mon Mar 26, 2018 8:53 pm

StarNord wrote:
Mon Mar 26, 2018 2:40 am
Now, i'm not a very competitive player and I understand where the devs are coming from when they say that they do not want a competitive mode, but they have to bite the bullet for once and realize that this game could really benefit from a competitive mode.

Not only will this feature send all the tryhards away from casual servers (allowing casuals to just have fun and not get their asses kicked everytime by some stuffy narcissist) but it'll allow the game to maintain a healthy playerbase. (otherwise it'd be like cortex command with only a thriving modding community and nothing else)

I find the decision to add a competitive mode to SFD similar to the one Klei made for Don't Starve, although the game didn't look like it would work as a multiplayer game, the players recommended it and the devs delivered which sprung the game to finally become a thing beyond the secluded and small singleplayer community.


just because SFD doesn't seem like a good candidate for a competitive mode doesn't mean it can't become one, although it might've not been the vision of the devs to have a competitive environment for the tryhards. The "just fun and chaotic" model isn't going to last either if every match just gets steamrolled by said tryhards who have nowhere to go for a real challenge.

jokes aside, adding a competitive mode doesn't mean that competitive matches won't be fun and chaotic, instead here, it would be skill over chaos which means getting rid of more luck-based features like duds, spinning knives, etc.

The ol' SF was literally(not figuratively) my childhood, I remember a night where I couldn't sleep just because of how bad I wanted to play SF the next day with my brother, so I kept waking up periodically after only a few hours of sleep after which I had to force myself back to sleep again. (yup, ol' SF gave me insomnia)

I really want this game to succeed, and while this may seem a bit selfish I want the devs to do whatever it takes to keep it relevant as long as it doesn't take away the magic of SuperFighters.

I could've gone on for longer but since I digressed a bit I'd rather like to know the SFD community's, especially Lunatic(to know whether he's changed his mind) since he's been a big voice for the "competitive push" for SFD, and also (hopefully) the "dynamic duo's" input on whether a competitive mode should be implemented or not.
I do find it a bit hard to see how people don't think that it's a good canditate for competitive play, you would only need to strip away the luck, or that's atleast how I would want it. Things that usually piss people off is their enemy just finding a bazooka, Grenade launcher, HP, Knife, katana, etc. Or when a critical shot knocks them off the map or deals massive damage and sets you up for another free shot, or when a bug fucks you over.

Most of what messes people up really is just luck, even the players that rely on luck will have it either work against them or in their favor. And they can play like that if they want to, and I'm not going to speak for the developers here, but I don't think it would be so hard to remove alot of chance from some sort of competitive mode. Honestly, it would more be just minimal luck, and that would be enough for me. No need for ranked or anything, stats could be cool and all but a "competitive" mode would be good enough for alot of people.


Formel wrote:
Mon Mar 26, 2018 3:44 pm
The thing is - those who beat everyone at ease and still are sticking around murdering everyone, won't just go in their sandbox and play there. They WILL come out and they WILL kick your ass. First - making corrals for different kind of players is always bad. Second - come on, it is player-hosted game. Devs have nothing to do with servers and stuff. Just apply some moderation to a server and clean out those who just beat everyone and being toxic about it. And I won't recommend to abuse it - playing with someone who is better than you actually teaches you stuff. Trust me, I learn to play exactly this way.

I understand if you are not going to learn - it's ok to just come to our cozy town of scullcracking mayhem from time to time without actually going deeply in, but implementing "competetive" right now... It's just seems out of place. For that kind of stuff you might need maintained servers, which actually cost alot, for saving up all stats and hosting, because, you know, host can cheat easily. And I think that Gurt had stated clearly - they are not going to make servers. At least for now. Server moderation is the answer, if you want to just hang out casually. Lack of servers that welcome new or just casual players is just another thing that probably needs another discussion thread.
Vitamin E wrote:
Mon Mar 26, 2018 3:23 am
You seem to be against “tryhards”
If you are having so much trouble playing with said players, why not host your own server where you can control who is or isn’t in your server?

The devs of this game want it to be fun and funny and making it competitive would take the fun out of it. Just because other players play at a higher level than yourself doesn’t mean you should talk down on them.

I’m sorry that you had to deal with people that were skilled at the game and rude at the same time. Those kinds of players are annoying to anyone. Like I said before, just host your own server and you’ll have a better time playing the game (which was designed to be fun).
I have no idea where you get those ideas from, he suggested a game mode. Not some controlled servers where only casual/competitive players are welcome.

I don't wanna speak for all skilled players, but I would most likely directly go over to the competitive mode and I bet it would become the favorite of many. I've seen people think that the luck elements in this game are too much, or that some features are outright bullshit (Throws, grabs, weapon drops). A "competitive" mode would just cut down on luck and that's that.
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Post by Hjarpe » Mon Mar 26, 2018 10:13 pm

My point of view is: If you're into competetive gaming, I don't see why you would gravitate towards SFD in the first place. It's for people who enjoy danger, chaos and absurdity in a relatively low-stakes scenario. (Hopefully the fiction of the campaigns will appeal as well.)

We do have plans for a Capture the Flag mode, which will have SOME more competetive potential because of the more symmetrical nature of that game mode.

But if you want a truly "competetive mode" (which I interpret as some version of Versus but with fixed player and weapon spawns which put players on equal footing (however that would work) and all RNG elements removed or substituted somehow, which isn't nearly as easy as you make it sound), it would in the end be a watered-down version of SFD. That's not what we want to play, so that's not what we'll make. Maybe once SFD is no longer free to play, the competetive players will find that their money is better spent elsewhere. If so, adieu! We can't please everyone.

Communication, however, is important. Maybe a slogan along the lines of " :twisted: EMBRACE THE CHAOS :twisted: " would be helpful to consumers, so they get an idea of what they're getting into.
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Post by Lunatic » Tue Mar 27, 2018 1:48 am

A competitive mode would need weapon tweaks and some extra mechanics to exist in a meaningful way. I personally don't think a solo competitive mode would work either - you'd need teams to make for a good game. Finally, the melee combat is so barebones I fear it wouldn't keep an audience.

Using the power of scripts, we can modify damage and crit chance on guns. We can add some while-equipped effects as well (like damage resistances) that can lead to some fun things, but otherwise we can't make the bigger changes that a competitive mode would need (reload speed differences, ammo differences, accuracy differences). Overall just using the scripting power we have now isn't enough to build a competitive mode.

Why would we want to make bigger weapon changes? Some of the guns are redundant, some are way too weak, and some are way too powerful to the point where they need tweaks and edits to be more in line with the other weapons while still being unique. On top of this, we'd need to craft some form of progressive weapon spawns and other things so that power weapons don't spawn until x amount of time has passed, and we'd need to set up some spawn systems to guarantee weapons spawn in equally distributed areas around the map so that everything doesn't just cluster one spot. Then there are the map edits I was working on...

This mode would be a lot of work. This doesn't even address the potential competitive issue of instant death from pits, the incredibly high damage explosive barrels/propane tanks do, the arguably high damage fire does, and the lack of mechanics at the player's disposal for pretty much anything (this game is really lacking tech. Like, bad. "Zoom" has the most potential to become a "real" mechanic, but it would need tweaks so that players could have greater potential for use).

Overall, I'd argue the game is a chatotic and unbalanced mess - which is exactly what the devs want and envisioned. I'm exaggerating a bit when I say that as the game is more balanced than I'm letting on, it just has a good handful of issues I'd ask for fixing. Furthermore, the systems at play leave a lot to RNG, again, as the devs envisioned. I got some help from Bash making a competitive script with a handful of great edits that made the game feel a lot better (no grenade impacts, weapon balance tweaks, fire movement speed changes, etc) and it was a good step forward, but without the power to make more in-depth changes, a competitive mode won't go any further nor will it survive. I'd love to mod the game to make it a competitive powerhouse as it deserves to be, but at the end of the day, unless the devs release the game in a modable state, there will be no competitive SFD.

But I'm very interested.
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