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Development roadmap and business plan (NEW!)

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Hjarpe
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Development roadmap and business plan (NEW!)

Post by Hjarpe » Tue Dec 12, 2017 8:19 pm

Attention superfighters!

Previously, our roadmap has said that there would be two versions of the Superfighters Deluxe beta, one paid and one free with some features locked down. Since then, we have decided to simplify our plan. Our goal for the coming months is to finish our last big to-do:s and release version 1.0 of Superfighters on Steam. The news featured in this version will be:

* At least one story campaign, playable in singleplayer and 4-player co-op. More campaigns are planned of course, and the plan is to release all future campaigns as free content. With each campaign you can expect additional content to be added, such as new versus maps, tiles and customization items.
* Local multiplayer - two players will be able to play on the same machine using keyboard and/or gamepads.
* Fully implemented bots that can shoot, throw grenades, etc.
* You will be able to add bots as teammates or enemies in versus mode.
* Full access to all map editor tools (bots, campaign tools, music, etc.)
* Steam integration - we will do our best to introduce Steam features such as joining friends' games. You also won't need a MythoLogic account to play SFD.

The exact pricing is still undecided, but will be in the ballpark of $10-15 as we have said before.
Estimated release date: mid-2018-ish.

And in case we forget, happy holidays and a smashing New Year!
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Post by Pricey » Wed Dec 13, 2017 12:13 am

Looks good guys! Can't wait for the Steam release.

EDIT: I'd like to know whether you guys are considering implementing achievements before the release, whether it'll be something added post-release, or if they'll be added at all?
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Post by Shock » Wed Dec 13, 2017 11:09 am

Will there be any updates before the full version? Or do we have to wait a long time? ;(
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Post by Venom » Wed Dec 13, 2017 12:03 pm

The steam version isn't gonna be free?
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Post by KliPeH » Wed Dec 13, 2017 12:04 pm

Hjarpe wrote:
Tue Dec 12, 2017 8:19 pm
[..] 4-player co-op.
Hjarpe wrote:
Tue Dec 12, 2017 8:19 pm
[...] two players will be able to play on the same machine using keyboard and/or gamepads.
Will four players be able to play on the same machine or will local play be limited to two players as mentioned in the 2nd quote?

A very promising plan otherwise, will be eagerly waiting to try the new campaign out and play against the new bots.
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Post by Gurt » Wed Dec 13, 2017 12:15 pm

KliPeH wrote:
Wed Dec 13, 2017 12:04 pm
Hjarpe wrote:
Tue Dec 12, 2017 8:19 pm
[..] 4-player co-op.
Hjarpe wrote:
Tue Dec 12, 2017 8:19 pm
[...] two players will be able to play on the same machine using keyboard and/or gamepads.
Will four players be able to play on the same machine or will local play be limited to two players as mentioned in the 2nd quote?
You will be limited to two players using the same machine but you will be able to play online.
So you can join (as two players) an 8 player versus game or a 4 player co-op game or any other game mode as two players as long as there're two slots open.
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Post by Sh4d0w » Wed Dec 13, 2017 2:24 pm

Seems really nice. Hope it will be released somewhere in 1st quarter of 2018!
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Post by Hjarpe » Wed Dec 13, 2017 7:05 pm

Pricey wrote:
Wed Dec 13, 2017 12:13 am
Looks good guys! Can't wait for the Steam release.

EDIT: I'd like to know whether you guys are considering implementing achievements before the release, whether it'll be something added post-release, or if they'll be added at all?
We'll certainly consider it, but it's not a high priority for us. We're not big fans of achievements and how most games use them, but we also realize that they are a big motivator for some players. So we'll see!
Shock wrote:
Wed Dec 13, 2017 11:09 am
Will there be any updates before the full version? Or do we have to wait a long time? ;(
We may have some more fixes coming soon, but aside from that, you'll have to wait. The campaigns are big chunks of content, and we can work a lot more effectively if we don't have to release a fully playable build every couple of months.
Sh4d0w wrote:
Wed Dec 13, 2017 2:24 pm
Seems really nice. Hope it will be released somewhere in 1st quarter of 2018!
Don't count on it -- we hope to have it done by summer though.
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Post by Kawabanga » Wed Dec 13, 2017 7:57 pm

Hjarpe wrote:
Tue Dec 12, 2017 8:19 pm
* Local multiplayer - two players will be able to play on the same machine using keyboard and/or gamepads.
Gurt wrote:
Wed Dec 13, 2017 12:15 pm
You will be limited to two players using the same machine but you will be able to play online.
So you can join (as two players) an 8 player versus game or a 4 player co-op game or any other game mode as two players as long as there're two slots open.
SSooooo hott! That's wonderfu!. But why not 4 players on gamepads at one machine?
Hjarpe wrote:
Tue Dec 12, 2017 8:19 pm
Estimated release date: mid-2018-ish.
Yesss :D

EDIT:
...and make farbg tiles dynamic again, please.
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Post by Formel » Thu Dec 14, 2017 5:24 pm

Great, now I should hide my 15 bucks gift card so I won't spend money on some bullshit and surely buy SFD as soon as possible. I never really thought about release being so soon. God, Del is a bad influence, I'm being goddamn emotional right now.

Oh, by the way, would I be able to use Steam and Mythologic authorisation at the same time or should I choose one of these?
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Post by Dumby Eggy » Thu Dec 14, 2017 6:58 pm

I have a suggestion Hjarpe: Will the content of SFD Beta have compatibility with the SFD full game ? I ask beacuse it would be a huge loss to render and remakes all maps again, but I understand your decision.

Happy new Year!
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Post by Banisher » Thu Dec 14, 2017 10:04 pm

"You also won't need a MythoLogic account to play SFD"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8ju_10NkGY
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Post by KliPeH » Thu Dec 14, 2017 11:22 pm

Banisher wrote:
Thu Dec 14, 2017 10:04 pm
"You also won't need a MythoLogic account to play SFD"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8ju_10NkGY
You bring up a good point, though.

Buying the game through a legitimate Steam account and then having to "confirm" the purchase by creating yet another account on the website might be a hassle from a consumer's point of view, but could potentially make the game harder to pirate. Cracking Steam games seems to be easy enough (doesn't that have something to do with the steam_api.dll file?), but fooling a system that tries to reach private servers in order to log users in could prove to be more difficult. I would much rather have the game be "inconvenient" to set up initially than see sales drop due to piracy. You already have the ML account interface set up, right? How hard would it be to integrate Steam into that?

I believe some Steam games out there still require you to create external accounts to play them (King Arthur's Gold is an example of one, I believe Audiosurf also let you create an account to keep track of leaderboard scores). That shouldn't be too much of an issue considering a two-step account verification system didn't seem to be that big of a detriment to their success.
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Post by Banisher » Thu Dec 14, 2017 11:57 pm

Actually, I don't think that this game will be pirated much. And the hassle in my opinion is not worth it (I have king Arthur's gold. the account system causes way too many bugs).

Let it stay as planned, I suggest. ( my personal opinion. I don't want a game that inconveniences me to inconvenience others).

Just my grain of salt.

EDIT: In fact, that's why my friends didn't want to buy kag. They thought it was too hassling. No wonder the sales for that game are low...
Last edited by KliPeH on Fri Dec 15, 2017 12:07 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Merged a double post.
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Post by KliPeH » Fri Dec 15, 2017 12:22 am

Banisher wrote:
Thu Dec 14, 2017 11:57 pm
[...] (I have king Arthur's gold. the account system causes way too many bugs).

[...] that's why my friends didn't want to buy kag. They thought it was too hassling. No wonder the sales for that game are low...
The sales for the game are low because the game is a buggy mess regardless of its account system. More than 80% of the Steam players have never even started a multiplayer KAG match - and that's a strictly multiplayer title we're talking about here. It's an indie title that has an unstable custom map/script framework, terrible netcode, a 30FPS framerate lock that makes playing the game an extremely unenjoyable experience, and a very toxic community to top it all off. That's along with an amateur-looking interface, a boring button-mash-y combat system and a learning curve that personally bores me out of my mind.

The premise was good but the game failed to deliver on it in the end. I wouldn't compare that to SFD. It's not why KAG failed and shouldn't be a reason for SFD's failure either. What bugs do you know of that could potentially cause issues/conflicts between the Steam and ML account systems?
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Post by Banisher » Fri Dec 15, 2017 2:24 am

For starters, my friend couldn't log onto his own account... XD

Anyways, I think that it would simply create an unnecessary hassle. No need for that, especially since I didn't hear a single soul wanting to pirate the game.

In addition, the pirates probably wouldn't want to play anyway. They wouldn't be able to play multiplayer, so they'd most likely buy the steam version. WIN WIN.
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Post by [Failman] » Fri Dec 15, 2017 7:47 pm

Banisher wrote:
Fri Dec 15, 2017 2:24 am
For starters, my friend couldn't log onto his own account... XD

Anyways, I think that it would simply create an unnecessary hassle. No need for that, especially since I didn't hear a single soul wanting to pirate the game.

In addition, the pirates probably wouldn't want to play anyway. They wouldn't be able to play multiplayer, so they'd most likely buy the steam version. WIN WIN.
Why would anyone tell you that their gonna pirate someone's game? even if they did they'd still do it. I have a friend who loves this game like crazy he goes to the forum site all the time but still pirates the game says it's "it's not online" if they can pirate it, it 's gonna be pirated. They'll find a way around the internet issue either through hamachi which does work, VPN, or direct port forward. Discord communities is a thing now, I say go for Steam I want this game to prosper.
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Post by Banisher » Fri Dec 15, 2017 11:11 pm

[Failman] wrote:
Fri Dec 15, 2017 7:47 pm
Banisher wrote:
Fri Dec 15, 2017 2:24 am
For starters, my friend couldn't log onto his own account... XD

Anyways, I think that it would simply create an unnecessary hassle. No need for that, especially since I didn't hear a single soul wanting to pirate the game.

In addition, the pirates probably wouldn't want to play anyway. They wouldn't be able to play multiplayer, so they'd most likely buy the steam version. WIN WIN.
Why would anyone tell you that their gonna pirate someone's game? even if they did they'd still do it. I have a friend who loves this game like crazy he goes to the forum site all the time but still pirates the game says it's "it's not online" if they can pirate it, it 's gonna be pirated. They'll find a way around the internet issue either through hamachi which does work, VPN, or direct port forward. Discord communities is a thing now, I say go for Steam I want this game to prosper.




A pirate would most likely just buy the game instead of hassling with all the internet crap. If it's easy to pirate and all the features are there, it's going to be pirated. If multiplayer (main aspect) is not available, a pirate would rather just easily buy the game. Pirates are lazy. They don't pirate games for the sake of doing 1,000,000 things to do so.

Pirates are lazy...
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Post by winter hell » Sat Dec 16, 2017 1:22 am

look what i really want is this game to be free but can we just have in game purches ljust like brawlhalla look the support on this game and shareing this well let people notice it but make it free i do feel like it right so trust me on this free game in game purches for people to get we could even add new guns and costumes u just want this game to be free for everyone to play but you guys gotta trust me on this ;(
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Post by Hjarpe » Sat Dec 16, 2017 5:03 pm

Dumby Eggy wrote:
Thu Dec 14, 2017 6:58 pm
I have a suggestion Hjarpe: Will the content of SFD Beta have compatibility with the SFD full game ? I ask beacuse it would be a huge loss to render and remakes all maps again, but I understand your decision.

Happy new Year!
Insofar as possible we want to keep maps backward-compatible. We don't plan to make map-breaking changes, but I can't promise anything at the moment. Happy new year!
KliPeH wrote:
Thu Dec 14, 2017 11:22 pm
Buying the game through a legitimate Steam account and then having to "confirm" the purchase by creating yet another account on the website might be a hassle from a consumer's point of view, but could potentially make the game harder to pirate. Cracking Steam games seems to be easy enough (doesn't that have something to do with the steam_api.dll file?), but fooling a system that tries to reach private servers in order to log users in could prove to be more difficult. I would much rather have the game be "inconvenient" to set up initially than see sales drop due to piracy. You already have the ML account interface set up, right? How hard would it be to integrate Steam into that?

I believe some Steam games out there still require you to create external accounts to play them (King Arthur's Gold is an example of one, I believe Audiosurf also let you create an account to keep track of leaderboard scores). That shouldn't be too much of an issue considering a two-step account verification system didn't seem to be that big of a detriment to their success.
We don't know to what extent the Steam API will be used; whether we will abandon the MythoLogic accounts altogether, or integrate them with Steam so one is automatically created when you start the game for the first time. Whichever way we go, there are pros and cons.

While two-step authentication may keep pirates away, it's also an added inconvenience for honest players. On the one hand we're inclined to get rid of the ML accounts completely, since it would mean less administration for us and a more streamlined experience for new players. On the other hand, we may also want to spread to other platforms and not be completely dependent on Steam. It's too early to tell. But we'll try out the Steam API first and see how it works for us.
winter hell wrote:
Sat Dec 16, 2017 1:22 am
look what i really want is this game to be free but can we just have in game purches ljust like brawlhalla look the support on this game and shareing this well let people notice it but make it free i do feel like it right so trust me on this free game in game purches for people to get we could even add new guns and costumes u just want this game to be free for everyone to play but you guys gotta trust me on this ;(
The free-to-play-with-microtransactions model is fine and all, but we prefer a game that is a cohesive, stand-alone work sold in one piece. Such a game can feel "greater than the sum of its parts", and I haven't felt that about a game that tried to sell its content to me piece by piece. Who knows, it may turn out that free-to-play is the only viable business model for us, but until then, that's not how I ideally want to make games.
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