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[DONE] Ability to grab enemies

Here you can see some of our planned features for Superfighters Deluxe.
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Re: Major feature: Ability to grab enemies

Post by Lunatic » Fri Jun 10, 2016 1:17 pm

Attacks should generally have some form of delay, though all our defensive options come out instantly (blocks, rolls, dives). Punches and kicks have some form of startup, I would hope grabs do too. Just don't let their startup be much longer than a standard attack.
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Post by Hjarpe » Fri Jun 10, 2016 2:45 pm

There will be a small delay with a distinct animation before you start charging. We'll probably tweak it so that if you predict that your enemy will block and initiate the charge as he starts blocking, you'll be guaranteed to catch him.
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Post by Lunatic » Fri Jun 10, 2016 4:49 pm

If I get hit and my opponent blocks, will the command be queued or will I have enough time to launch the attack out of hitstun to catch their block before they can try to jump/dive/attack?

Also, how fast is this charge? Regular jogging speed? Sprint speed? Will it consume stamina once per use or will it drain stamina and stop charging on our command/when our stamina runs out?
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Post by Hjarpe » Fri Jun 10, 2016 7:09 pm

Good questions for us to think about :) I could answer now but my answers will probably change once we've tested it.
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Post by Lunatic » Sat Jun 11, 2016 10:58 pm

Due to how knockdowns work, it sounds very easy to knock someone over and then initiate a charge, basically guaranteed to grab the player you just knocked down without them having a chance to retaliate or escape. Since we can tech-roll now, I think that would be a great way to escape a grab. Furthermore, I think testing should be done as to whether or not regular rolls should "dodge" grabs.

Since we can pick up bodies before crouching before we initiate a grab, does that mean that crouching and trying to grab would do nothing without bodies present? Or would it just check for a body before doing the regular charge? Frankly I think standing grabs would be a tad bit more balanced than a moving one since moving with a grab box has a ton of active frames that can be annoying or difficult to counter. It's also incredibly easy to throw out the grab since you don't have to work on timing as much.

I like the ideas this gives me for combos, though. When we grab someone and groin kick to drop them at our feet, would we be fast enough to do a standing kick while they're still lying on the ground?

EDIT: Also, throws are probably going to be really, really strong. Like, probably way too strong. I like the idea but the ability to reposition someone in that fashion will just be busted. The power punch knockback is probably all we really need; being able to throw someone (off of buildings, into mines, onto explosive barrels) basically give a free instant kill move haha.
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Post by Zyfex » Sun Jun 12, 2016 3:33 am

grab sounds nice n all but walldive into grab sounds kinda broken
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Post by Lunatic » Sun Jun 12, 2016 6:02 am

I was thinking about all sorts of "grabs would be busted if used like this" scenarios, that's why I think rolling (and especially teching) should dodge grabs. This way, players can tech roll out of a walldive to save themselves from being grabbed.
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Post by hxnter » Sat Jun 18, 2016 7:12 am

if this is implemented, it has to be done very well to maintain balance (i.e : easy to counter/depends on skill & timing, compliments game's physics, not spammable, etc). when a player is grabbed, it should allow the grabber ~.7 seconds (rough estimate, edit to balance) to make his next move before the grabbed player can counter with either a punch or kick. i also think the grabber should be able to shove the grabbed player either in front or behind him. this shove should knock players on their back, but not too far (balance). this seems like a good start for the grab mechanic.
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Post by Pricey » Sat Jun 18, 2016 1:51 pm

Will you be able to do some sort of punch-while-grabbing thing. Because that sounds awesome.
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Post by Lunatic » Sun Jun 19, 2016 8:18 am

There won't be any pummeling, if that's what you're asking, but they will let you punch someone out of your grab.
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Post by Pricey » Sun Jun 19, 2016 9:07 am

Ok. Also, will you be able to move while holding a corpse, kinda like a flinging over the shoulder action, it would decrease speed but it could block bullets if you threw it off at the right time.
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Post by Hjarpe » Wed Aug 17, 2016 7:35 pm

Attention superfighters! We've decided to remove grabbing from the planned features.

Before throwing, we felt that the melee was lacking in a big way, so we thought hard about how to improve it. Now that we've had throwing for a while, melee feels much more "alive" and exciting, so we don't feel the same need to add another melee move.

We still think our grabbing idea was good, but we think the time needed to implement and test it can be better spent on other things.
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Post by Billy » Wed Aug 17, 2016 7:42 pm

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Pls add this, cause currently mellee is just attack/block and throw your weapon into his face.
This whould add more varity, which is neccessary, i think.
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Post by Lunatic » Thu Aug 18, 2016 12:49 am

So grabbing was just an afterthought of "Melee has too few options and we'd like a new move"? Blocking beats throwing just as much as it beats punching. We don't even really need grabs, just a move that deals damage through a block or something. VERY disappointing to see this dropped.
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Post by Consigliere » Thu Aug 18, 2016 1:04 am

i want grabs!
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Post by Bash Kraken » Thu Aug 18, 2016 1:14 am

Okay, I can understand that, after the introduction of throwing, melee combat isn't as horrible as it was before, and there is an element of fun added to the mix. But I still feel throwing isn't enough for melee to be both fun and fair. Sure, throwing is highly useful for finishing blows, stunning, comboing, and one or two other things, but there are many things it can't do that need to be done. As has been stated before, blocks still have no true counter, and this isn't fun or fair. So, please consider your community's wishes before you make a decision. I know it's your game, but we're the people who are going to buy it.
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Post by Wozenbelt » Thu Aug 18, 2016 1:16 am

I could make a whole essay about why grabs would be good, but it's been said many times. It completes the rock paper scissors dynamic. Without it, melee is an incomplete mechanic, and, by extension, SFD is incomplete. It's a major feature that I feel is vital to the game's success, and so I ask, please, do not scrap grabs.
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Post by Pricey » Thu Aug 18, 2016 1:19 am

I see where you're coming from with the throwing part, sure, its good. But grabs would add the diversity that melee in this game so desperately needs, as Wozenbelt said, it completes the RPS cycle. I can say I was looking forward to these being added.
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Post by KliPeH » Thu Aug 18, 2016 1:31 am

Even though I don't think I ever showed written support for the grab mechanic, I made sure to support it with likes wherever feasible. The addition being cancelled is just as disappointing to me as to the other members who posted above; block is basically the only move that "trumps" the other basic melee attacks and doesn't have a good counter. What we proposed, and you planned to implement, was a move that replaced the current wait-before-striking tactic and gave melee combat a more natural, a more vibrant feeling. Throwing isn't exactly the new "melee" move we were looking for; it's obviously a welcome addition, but just as the other moves, got beaten by the almighty fighter block, which is yet to find formidable competition. I think we would all highly appreciate it if you gave the idea some more thought and saw the pros of polishing the current rock-paper-scissors melee system currently in place. Perhaps a replacement for the grab move - some sort of dash, maybe - would be the kind of thing you'd be willing to look into?
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Post by Judy » Thu Aug 18, 2016 1:39 am

Damn... everyone was talking about it and i was excited but now it got canceled....
I feel like we all are not that satisfied with the melee system, because the grabbing could complete the system. It would be nice for it to be made as a future feature, if other things are urgent. But i sincerely think grabbing would take SFD into Alpha state. And i will be looking forward to see that beeing rescheduled. After all, the game is still in development. What will happen when we we'll buy it and we won't be satisfied with what we purchased
Last edited by Judy on Thu Aug 18, 2016 1:45 am, edited 2 times in total.
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