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New marker suggestions

Share questions and tutorials related to the map editor. Share you maps in the Superfighters Deluxe Custom Maps section.
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Motto73
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New marker suggestions

Post by Motto73 » Wed Jan 11, 2017 12:53 pm

Hi all!

I am gonna suggest here two new markers that would awesomely enchant the gameplay and map-making:

1. OnClickTrigger

Image
Suggestions on how the OnClickTrigger could look like in editor

Basically this trigger could work like the ActivateTrigger, but instead of tracking the player it wouldlisten the mouse input. When the mouse is on this trigger, the Highlight Object would be highlighted.

Properties:
Image
Code tree:
Image

2. Camera

Image
Examples of CameraMarker in editor

A whole new camera system, based on CameraMarkers.

Properties:
Image

Code tree:
Image

How would it work then?

The camera component could be sized with the scale of one world unit (commonly pixels) simply by dragging it like AreaTrigger or any other sizeable tile, but smaller units.
Examples:
Image
World-unit based camera in the editor. Note that the marker symbol stays in the uper left corner.
Image
Scaling based on the normal 8-pixel tiles

Some items defined by the IObjectCameraMarker:

Code: Select all

/// <summary>
/// The users who will see the rendering of this camera. Default everyone.
/// </summary>
IUser[] Spectators [get, set]

/// <summary>
/// The size of the area that the camera renders. Scales with one world unit.
/// </summary>
Point Size;	[get, set]

/// <summary>
/// Is the camera rendering actively?
/// </summary>
Bool IsActive; [get] [Maybe also set] (if not then Activate())

/// <summary>
/// The objects to follow if camera is set dynamic. Default every player.
/// </summary>
BaseObject[] ObjectsToFollow; [get, set]
 
Some optional improvements:

Code: Select all

/// <summary>
/// On which place this camera renders on the winodw? Like, left upper quarter, right half, etc.. Can be used to render multiple cameras, like peope could have their own cameras and one big whole-map-camera on the right upper corner.
/// </summary>
Rectangle WiewportRectangle; [get, set]

//A small addition to Game namespace
/// <summary>
/// Overrides map script calls for methods like Game.SetCameraArea(). Only for extension scripts. Would prevent some Camera bugs in scripted maps.
/// </summary>
Game.OverrideCameraSettings()
Please think of these, give your own suggestions and discuss more. I really want the devs to see this.

and sorry klipr for making a new topic
Last edited by Motto73 on Thu Jan 12, 2017 7:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by JakSparro98 » Wed Jan 11, 2017 4:08 pm

I really like how the camera is handled, and the possibilities with the mouse integrations for the gameplay are endless, I only think that the main gameplay idea of Gurt and Hjarpe didn't supposed to use mouse a lot(so far only the menu). But at this point, if this suggestion will be inserted in the developer's todo list (maybe as as stretch goal) could be a bigger step with the keyboard bindings or, as for the mouse, the key trigger.
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Post by Duck » Wed Jan 11, 2017 10:58 pm

The main thing that would be awesome for click triggers is creating your own menus within maps and scripts.
With full control over the clicks and the camera we could do things like:
The match starts and the player sees a black screen with 6 weapon sets, then they can click on one; once everyone picks their weapons the fight starts and the round begins like a normal game.
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Post by Motto73 » Thu Jan 12, 2017 7:29 am

Somehow I deleted some of my own text in that post, fixed
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Post by Gurt » Thu Jan 19, 2017 9:21 pm

The timing is good on the camera marker suggestion as we "soon" need such triggers. We will most likely take some inspiration from the marker visuals.
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Post by Motto73 » Tue May 09, 2017 10:43 am

Gurt wrote:
Thu Jan 19, 2017 9:21 pm
The timing is good on the camera marker suggestion as we "soon" need such triggers. We will most likely take some inspiration from the marker visuals.
I am very impressed that you actually used the visuals on the triggers you made. I appreciate this. Thanks.

And now into the camera marker:

It is nice having some triggers that can control camera, but even if we got it now, I'll say, this update was the worst I can remember. With the removal of the border areas and basic commands in scripts this spoiled most of custom maps, and since a lot of our map makers have "retired" there is no one to fix the old maps. Personally I like the most playing custom modes and co-ops which are all broken now. What I suggest is that you returned the normal camera commands back to us, but recommend using this marker instead.

Thanks in advance if you decided to help the poor little map makers.

p.s.
In addition many normal maps are broken since the border area is now dependent on camera area, in the way that it shows stuff that should be not seen.
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Post by KliPeH » Tue May 09, 2017 11:39 am

Motto73 wrote:
Tue May 09, 2017 10:43 am
[...] this update was the worst I can remember. With the removal of the border areas and basic commands in scripts this spoiled most of custom maps, and since a lot of our map makers have "retired" there is no one to fix the old maps. Personally I like the most playing custom modes and co-ops which are all broken now. What I suggest is that you returned the normal camera commands back to us, but recommend using this marker instead.

Thanks in advance if you decided to help the poor little map makers.
On the other hand, we can't have development progress be impeded by every single thing the community creates. Maps getting outdated and no longer functioning properly is a given with any update that changes core things in the game. Some maps from the 1.2 beta era no longer work, and I don't see anybody complaining about that anymore - even if some of them were truly good. Tile sprites changed and may no longer be as pleasent as they used to be, the weapon spawning system changed, grabs and throwing were introduced disrupting gameplay in very specific gimmick maps, and yeah, script API changes too - the AI introduced in the previous update and the camera in this one, for example.

Code can sometimes be messy or written in a sub-optimal/ineffective way. As we near the game's release, devs will strive to iron ugly pieces of code out to provide us with more user functionality or make the use of the interface more newbie-friendly. Things move on, and most importantly, move forwards and not backwards. Creating backwards compatibility for functions can be a massive task, and require big effort for not that big of a reward. If the devs see fit to change code in a way that makes it either more flexible or easier to use, I'm all for it.

If specific custom maps are especially important to you, feel free to start fixing them yourself. You can't bring retired map creators back; you don't have that amount of influence over a person no matter who you are. Some aren't proud of their work and don't want to invest more time in it, some run out of ideas or don't feel they can improve the maps anymore, some lack the technical knowledge needed to fix them and some simply lose interest in the game. You can't expect all current map makers to stay active for all eternity. Custom map content constantly gets cycled around and more custom maps will be made with time, now with the new camera system taken into account.

most custom maps are garbage anyway, especially the adventure ones, not a great loss i'd wager
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Post by Motto73 » Tue May 09, 2017 1:10 pm

Not a great loss. Sure.

I have used almost all my fee time on one and half year studying how the editor works, code tricks and making maps. I am not playing that much, but I am always creating more mods or maps. I really love custom modes, and all of the adventure maps are very precious. All my thoughts are all the time related to sfd, it's not just a game for me anymore, it's my lifestyle. With this I wanna tell how important this is for me.

I know that the dynamic duo told us that the maps might not work in future versions, but why to remove such well-working and finished things? The custom camera was in the heart of many custom modes, and now they're broken... I have integrated to this game and I don't want to let go just because one update made progress to wrong direction. If we won't get back the glorious camera commands, I wish that Gurt will add similiar commands tothe trigger somehow. With no camera borders even the normal maps look bad, if you haven't matched the camera trigger... ...which is the case in almost all maps now.
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Post by Gurt » Tue May 09, 2017 10:00 pm

We removed the border areas because they do no longer apply and isn't a concept in SFD anymore.
The camera area you specify and use include an outer limit (represented by white borders when selected) that represent the largest possible area that can be visible to the end users (the players) depending on their resolution. It's up to you to design your map in such a way that it makes sense for the end users - no matter their resolution. The old border areas concept was a hacky way to render black borders outside any given area due to the old non-working dynamic camera that could show more than intended - this is no longer the case.

See KliPeH reply for why features may be removed at times. We're not deliberately trying to screw anyone over.
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Post by Motto73 » Sat Mar 31, 2018 7:02 pm

Time for MORE marker suggestions!

3. ConnectJoint
Image
WeldJoint's tougher big brother

It would work like Weldjoints to users but instead of making invisible "rubber band" between tiles it would actually combine the connected objects into one tile! See the examples:

Here you can see the normal WeldJoint in use: it makes bonding with certain force between connected objects:
Image
Here is ConnectJoint: It combines the textures into one big tile and also into one big collider:
Image

Benefits:
  • It could reduce a LOT lag when having multiple tiles weld together
  • It would make connection more constant, and avoid the "rubber madness" bug (see below)
  • It has a cool symbol
Bad things it might have:
  • Computing the new colliders and textures might take more time than just making the force connection
  • More tiles might confuse people
  • Someone might mistake the symbol of actually meaning something instead of being a failed drawing
"Rubber madness" bug (.gif by @Zere )
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Post by JakSparro98 » Sun Apr 01, 2018 2:51 am

Motto73 wrote:
Sat Mar 31, 2018 7:02 pm
ConnectJoint suggestion
I would like to see something like this come true, but I strongly fear that It won't happen since the player could create a new fixture (a box2d collider to be clear) that could be concave and this is not acceptable in the engine.

Nothing impossible though, only a lot of work (and equally willpower from the devs) to add the new mechanic, some check in the editor to accept only convex shapes and prevent futher game breaking bugs due this new addition.
Off Topic
sometimes I think that for adding these time-consuming features they should consider to hiring some extra code helpers (and no, I'm not thinking about myself, I cannot handle an entire game as developer, also because I've already a job currently).
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Post by Motto73 » Sun Apr 01, 2018 7:18 am

As nice as it sounds on first sight it actually has a lot problems @JakSparro98. For example, how should tile health be handled? If you connect barrels, crates and solid tiles, what happens when someone shoots it? Things aren't as simple after all.
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Post by JakSparro98 » Sun Apr 01, 2018 5:21 pm

I don't know much how Box2D works but I found something that explains two ways of welding objects together, one is with weld joints but the page itself also says that this first method will have a problem, the one we have already experimented (weld joints are not perfectly rigid), the other seems to be a single body solution, here is the source.
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